PBP: P01135809 Trump Espionage, Coup, Conspiracy, Racketeering, Fraud & Obstruction Trial Thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by The Jitty Slitter, Jun 10, 2023.

?

What will be the outcome?

  1. Guilty

  2. Not guilty

  3. Pardons himself

  4. Goes into exile in Snowden's flat

  5. Some other fascism

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    can’t wait till season 12 when trump sends the justices to gitmo and replaces them with justice Bongino
     
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  2. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    Republicans think they can ride the dragon. All of them.
     
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  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    its all fun and games until you are swinging from the piano wire
     
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  4. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would agree with Alito, Thomas, and Kavanaugh. Not so sure about Roberts and ACB, and maybe not Gorsuch, either. Somehow (I'm not sure how), I get the impression that Roberts, ACB, and Gorsuch like the "R" after Trump, but not necessarily Trump, himself.

    Only Christy and that other guy won't pardon him. Even Haley would.

    As I mentioned just above, I think there are three constituencies:
    Kagan, Sotomayor, and Jackson
    Roberts, ACB, and Gorsuch
    Kavanaugh, Alito, and Thomas.

    The top and bottom can't be separated. The group in the middle might be able to.

    And I do agree to this. Though not in as absolute terms as you are saying.
     
  5. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    Pleas tell me that this is correct

     
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  6. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If it is the case that he will be "selling" them, then yes. But it depends on how the transfer is done. As an example, I am going to take over the deed to my dad's property (when he dies). Since it will be a transfer, and not a sale, he will not be subjected to any capital gains tax (that I would have to pay as executor of his estate).
     
  7. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Death transfer is different. It is something GOP have been fighting and winning to never get taxed. Any money or property bequeathed to you from a dying family member is almost always tax free. It allows for continued generational wealth.
     
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  8. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Right; and it is about the least meritocratic and libertarian thing imaginable. I have spent a lifetime trying to find just one self-professed libertarian who will agree with me that it would make more sense for the state to inherit most of one's wealth when one dies, to be used for social security, Medicare, housing the homeless, caring for veterans, etc. The meritorious can already jump start their kids with proper food and healthcare and good education and first cars, even first houses; there's no reason to enable a world where the kids of the people who work for the meritorious will have to work for the kids of their parents bosses, however mediocre or worse they may be.

    Even as a hypothetical it seems to be repugnant to people who insist that Utopia should be a meritocracy; all I ever get out of the discussion is called "comerade..."
     
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  9. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, like DT and TJ said, death is different - when you have the property transferred to you, you get a "stepped up basis" meaning that the value for capital gains purposes is readjusted upon the death to the value at the time of the death, so you don't pay capital gains on any value above the original value of the property, only on value above the "stepped up" value of the property (*). This also works for stocks - my aunt passed away in December 2022 and all of the stock in her portfolio got a stepped up basis so when we sold it for distributing among her greedy nephews (me and my brothers), her estate didn't have to pay significant capital gains. As DT and TJ say, it's about keeping the money in the family, which primarily benefits families that already have money.

    (*) note that in California, for Proposition 13 purposes, the property tax you pay is not based on the "stepped up" value of the property, but on the original value that the decedent was paying. Which is some pretty major bullshit - if you keep the property, your property taxes are below market value, and if you sell the property, your capital gains are minimized. It's the best of both worlds - it's pretty awesome to inherit wealth.
     
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  10. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Not quite. What’s true on death is that property gets a stepped up basis to its fair market value on the date of death. That makes a (potentially large) difference if and when the property is subsequently sold.

    I’m also in the camp that feels this is a totally inegalitarian situation that just perpetuates wealth within families.
     
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  11. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    It has to be hard for a guy like Weissmann who dedicated his life to DOJ to have to see such a corrupt and sordid outcome to this trial. I could hear it in his voice in his last summary when he was trying to remain professional. But at some point legal analysis just doesn't make sense anymore.

     
  12. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Will Trump have to pay taxes on the transfer of his property to E Jean Carroll?
     
  13. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very familiar. My mom got the benefit when she divorced my dad and sold a few years later.
     
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  14. Val1

    Val1 Member+

    Arsenal
    Mar 12, 2004
    MD's Eastern Shore
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'm not.

    Why should the death of someone become a taxable event? First off, the money has already been taxed. And secondly, unless you want a society with 100% redistribution of income, why would money left to one's kids be what is targeted?

    I think the more relevant issue is how can we ensure that more families have wealth to perpetuate.
     
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  15. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    It isn't really money that is the issue-- each generation's drop cases can be relied on to piss that away. It is ownership, control-- when they run businesses into the ground, they trash employee lives...
     
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  16. ElNaranja

    ElNaranja Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Jul 16, 2017
    Are folk seriously arguing against the death tax, a tax that affects almost no one in this country yet is used to fund all kinds of social programs?
     
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  17. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    So has the money from income tax, corporation tax etc.

    Truth is, the rich aren’t taxed properly because they use debt to finance their lifestyles rather than income. A death tax makes little difference - to redistribute wealth properly you need a small asset tax rather than an income tax.

    (Zakat is excellent at that - you pay 2.5% of your excess wealth annually to the poor, and you pay it annually regardless of whether there’s a taxable event like when you sell or realise a capital gain - it’s based on your total asset value excepting your necessary assets like main home etc).
     
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  18. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    if I take my money and pay you to fix my car, the money I’m paying you has already been taxed so why should you pay income tax on it?

    When it’s you getting money from me for you doing some work it seems silly to argue your income from fixing my car shouldn’t be taxed.

    Why then should you be exempt from tax if you didn’t even do any work????

    Look at it this way…inheritance taxes are taxes on unearned income. We tax earned income so not taxing unearned income is perverse.

    Get it? Death isn’t a taxable event. You getting money from someone else’s death is the taxable event.
     
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  19. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because it's income to the person receiving the inheritance.
     
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  20. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    I stand to inherit millions from my parents. I plan to give most of it away, and don’t really care about how much the govt takes away in taxes, even if it was most all of it.

    I’m a strong believer in the Carnegie Way. Dad has helped me and my siblings plenty already.
     
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  21. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Do you need a new best friend? Or better yet, Would your parents like to adopt two adorable grandkids?

    I am buying a Real Salt Lake Jersey as we speak.
     
  22. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Mostly, the $$$ is put in a charitable trust for us to administer after my parents pass. We could largely pay ourselves, but I think most of us won’t.
     
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  23. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    A step up in basis has zero impact until said property - real or otherwise - is sold. So not only does the inheritor receive the benefit of inheriting property, they receive the benefit if and when they sell.of having an increased basis solely due to it being inherited. If anything, I would flip the argument around:- if you don't want death to be a "taxable event", why isn't the basis left unchanged on inheritance?
     
  24. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Going back to this question - he's not transferring property to E. Jean Carroll. The judgement is for money, not property. He's selling the property (*), and if there are capital gains on the sale, he will owe taxes on those capital gains. The proceeds from the sale will go to Carroll.

    (*) The forced sale of property means that it may not be at an ideal price, but here's where we start playing a very small violin. Lots of people have to sell assets in an emergency situation - to pay for unexpected medical needs, for example. The market doesn't wait for everything to be great if you have to sell - you get what you can get because you need the money more than you need the assets. Trump will almost certainly complain about this, but it happens quite a bit to people who aren't named Trump.
     
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  25. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is that the actual process? I have heard/read it as "selling" by the media, but none of them are experts in this area as far as I know, so I used a more generic term.
     

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