P&CE Discussion of Tolkien, LOTR, Silmarillion, and Amazon’s Expensive Commercial Attempt at Fanfic

My least favorite thing about Legolas was turning him into such an overwhelming badass, sliding on a shield, vaulting onto an oliphaunt, etc. And Gimli in turn ending up kind of a buffoon.

But totally agree with you on the positive casting, save maybe for Merry and Pippin, who were just a little too goofy. It’s kind of good they didn’t include the Scouring of the Shire, because I’m not sure those two could’ve pulled off coming home as burly stud muffins.

But Gandalf is possibly the most perfect bringing-to-life of a book character I’ve ever seen. When I reread the books several years back I couldn’t help but picture and hear Ian McKellan.

 

Taking the hobbits to Isengard, you spake?

 

The final 90 minutes of ROTK is almost flawless (remove Legolas surfing on the elephant) and I will not argue further with you smelly pig dogs about it. good day sir.

 

No I will go further. From the moment Theoden leaves camp at Dunharrow, to the moment Sam says "I'm back," there isn't a single scene (aside from Legolas and the elephant) that is even worthy of debate. You chumps don't appreciate how good that movie is.

 

Not really talking here about how accurate the characterization is in relation to the books, but more thinking about the notion of a very old character having to be very serious, perhaps even dour.

One thing I liked about the (now probably largely forgotten?) TV version of Highlander is that the oldest immortal, Methos, was a bit silly. Because how can one survive for 5000 years without getting a (weird) sense of humor somewhere along the way?

 

Nah. Because the Scouring comes before "I'm back."

I love the movies, but cutting the Scouring from the Return is horrific. That's the money chapter, the whole point of the books. It's about hobbits, and after being saved by others, they save their corner of Middle Earth.

 

Listen up hippie. I can tolerate political differences, I can even tolerate poor grammar, but one thing I will not stand for is someone standing up for the Scouring of the Shire. I skip it every time now, because the movie version is just so much better -- the heroes don't get any recognition back home and have to, somehow, return to their old lives.

I shun you. Everyone, shun this man.

 

The books are filled with moments like these that just don't work by today's standards. In the Fellowship of the Ring, in Balin's tomb, the Fellowship slay twelve Orcs and then the rest flee when Aragorn decapitates the chieftain. That would have looked terrible in the movie. Imagine if, after the Men of Gondor had sucessfully defended the walls, they'd just straight-up run like cowards and Gandalf did nothing to stop them? He just stands still like a sentinel, OR he tries and fails to stop them?

The heroism that applied in the 1940s and 1950s -- kill the leader, the rest leave -- just looks lame on the screen today. The movie version lets the Men of Minas Tirith show their bravery, gives us one heck of a battle scene, and I will brook no dissent here.

 

IIRC, this was meant as something of an allegory for returning Great War veterans who no longer recognized the communities they had left before the war. So it's not really about getting recognition, it's about the war returning home with them in ways they might not have expected.

 

you're a hot mess

 

That's fair, but that's why I think the movie is smart to move away. There's a thousand "war hero brings war home with him story" movies, but ROTK does a great job in allowing the heroes to happily fade into obscurity.

 

Waiting patiently for the 9-part Harry Potter-Hobbit-Star Wars mashup franchise.