Vince posted this in another thread about Young -- I've been thinking the above about Nani. How he seems to be yanked in and out of the team. How he gets us to the CL final and then doesn't get to play in it. Rio -- finds himself way down on the captaincy list after leading the team for years. The replacement captain (one who gets the job because he's available every game) is then out for the year with a long term injury. Berbatov didn't get much of a chance this year. Chicarito plays 10 minutes here and there. Phil Jones plays every position. He isn't being trained for a single one of them. Our replacement midfielders are never seen. Definitely don't play. Seems like our players aren't treated that well anymore. Maybe it has always been that brutal, but I thought that the starting 11 was well-treated at least. Not lately. Compare that to the City team. I noticed this today. Micah Richards doesn't start. He comes on late in the game. He has a purpose. He stops what could have been the likely goal. He has a great game. He has a position, a job to do. We need to fix the team.
This all goes back to the whole "not having a plan" issue. That, and as you said, players for the most part seem to be chopped liver. The only player the club attempted to get the best out of in recent history was Ronaldo, and that's because Quieroz was around. As soon as Quieroz left Ronaldo was immediately reverted back to a traditional winger. Only when the club reached far into the CL that year did the management team come to their senses and de-limit Ronaldo once more. When it comes to the players it appears that this is the pecking order: Ferguson------------------------------------------------->"We always do it the hard way" and whatever other meaningless ideology you can come up with------->4-4-2----------------------------->Players What's worse is it's not going to change any time soon.
Just to make a point lynne - Rio lost the captaincy a couple seasons ago to his injury record. He was out a lot more games the last 2 seasons than this past one, Fergie needed someone on the field. That has nothing to do with this. And your statement about replacement midfielders? We have none - I don't know what you mean. Ando is out, Fletch is out. Apart from that I don't disagree too much with your statement. Like, I wonder what this club has in mind for Phil Jones. This isn't the old days where you hear "glory tales" of how Roy of Rovers or Duncan Edwards played in every position. This is a kid that needs to be groomed into either defense or midfield and then appropriately trained. IE Pepe occasionally plays DM for Madrid, but that is either in dire need or just tactical - he IS a CB. What will Jones be? As far as Nani - he did have a decent number of knocks and whatnot, missed games here and there this season. But I know what you mean. A thing that has been quite frustrating to me this season are substitutions. 80 plus minutes and then we bring them out? What exactly is the plan there? Never given time to mesh with the team....it's confusing.
I know this is nitpicking, but when did Nani lead us to the CL final? That season, rightly or wrongly, the team with the best chemistry got to play in the CL final. Nani had faded in that season, so he did not get to play. He had a big first half of the season, and then Rooney picked up the pace and led the team. Nani has yet to have one whole solid season. His numbers are good, but on the field, when he is off, he drags the whole team down with him. He was supposed to be the Ronaldo replacement, and up to now, he has not fulfilled his "potential."
Yep, Nani lost form towards the end of that season, and Valencia was flying. Even though it didn't work out, it was the logical choice to leave him out of that final.
as stated, without a plan of action other than rotation, guts and shutting up shop in big games... there's going to be a lot of confusion and avoidable dips in form. You get the feeling Fergie's dream squad would be of the intelligence and technical acumen of the Dutch and German early - mid 70's super teams. Then, he could tinker and rotate and just get them all out there to play without any problems or dips in form. As our lot are a very ordinary bunch - relative to the shirt - it doesn't work, and leaves both parties incredibly frustrated at times. I have to say one thing I have found appalling is the way Berbatov has been shunted into oblivion like he has. Unless he did something really bad behind the scenes, it's a terrible way to treat him. I would not be surprised to hear a few barbs (Berbs?) from him when he leaves this summer. Nani is his own worst enemy. When he's bad, he's a problem, so he has to be dropped given how important his brief is when on the pitch. Too much goes through him for it to be OK. On the whole, the majority of our squad don't have that much to complain about. If anything, some of them get too much PT via sentiment and former glories than they should. Not many other big clubs would tolerate that line of thinking.
Nani may be his own worse enemy, but we do nothing to mitigate this. Give him one position, one brief and back him with an intelligent, capable fullback and players who want to link up around the box. I would try to get Clev/Nani/Welbeck/Rooney on the pitch together as much as possible. I certainly would avoid playing Nani on the left when one or both of Clev and Welbeck are not on the pitch.
I disagree with pretty much everything in the first post. Well, except for the "fixing" part that we need. We do need fixing. -RE: Rio not a captain and Vidic is. Based on history, Vidic was in top 3 in games played every season, while Rio was not even in top 10 for most of the past 3-4 years. -RE: Berbatov. 4th choice strikers normally don't get a lot of playing time, especially considering we were out of most competitions pretty early. -RE: Phil Jones. Rather than trying to force him into 1 position, SAF is trying to figure out a long-term plan for him. Also, hopefully playing in different parts of the field teaches Jones about positioning, helps with reading the game, crossing the ball, etc. -RE: Nani. There's no consistency from him, and considering we have pretty good options out wide, you could see why he'd miss games here and there. -RE: Replacement midfielders don't play. We have had 11 midfielders play more than 9 games for us this season. And I'm not even counting games when Rooney or Rafael played in midfield. The problem is not that the replacement midfielders don't play, it's the opposite.
No multiquote anymore!!! And yet Gary Neville was captain for years when he played games only now and again. At the time, we wondered why that was -- why the captaincy wasn't given to someone who was on the field. But at least you could say that the club was honoring Neville's service to the team and his importance. Which is my point I think. Other teams pick the most senior players. Some teams pick the best player. We have a mish-mash, middle-of-the-road approach. But I think you can make the point that we weren't thinking of Rio's feelings when we did this. Which was my point. Yes, I assume they're thinking exactly the above. I just can't help but think that it will wind up with him playing every position average and no position well. And that he'll be another player in the team that just can't work well with others. Yes, there's a bunch of Nani comments in the posts above this one....and no multiquote feature!!!! So we have wing players -- Young, Nani, Valencia, Park, probably a couple more. What's it like? Survival of the fittest? There's no obvious hierarchy and the theory is that this keeps all the players on their toes. But after a few years, it must get old. Nani wins POTY for Utd, but is right back to the bottom of the pile next season. It has to get tiring to keep climbing back up the hill. Same with Valencia btw. And add in the effect 0f the serial injuries. Very wearying. So next up for discussion is Rooney. Been on the cusp of greatness for about 10 years. Has played every position in midfield and forward over that time. Wonder what he thinks when he's pulled out of a game against Swansii?
I am a bit doubtful that Wayne changes much anymore. We seem to use him so loosely in terms of positioning that he can't get too great at the things he's currently not good at. In the first half of the season we played him deep alot because our midfield was so shitty (let's just ignore the fact that Carrick was semi-ignored alot in the first third of this season, for reasons I've not been aware of). Then we use him as a target man, a wing player, etc. I know he's young and it's not prudent to claim he's a finished product, but I don't see too much more development coming. Simply because he is the so called talisman of this team - he can go into this so-called "hero" mode and we can't really object to it, because sometimes it's all we have. And he does have goals in him, so when he goes HERO there's still the possibility of a goal, whereas Nani may just dribble into a corner against 3 players. Wazza is only 26. But I just don't know how he'll be anything much more than what he is. As he is now, he's a slightly overpaid but highly talented striker/deep midfielder but not that good/left winger/whatever the hell Fergie is feeling that day. I know versatility across the front 3 is treasured at this club, but sometimes it annoys me. And I can't even explain why.
The chance to chase GD was gone and he was frustrated and already on a yellow. Saving him for next week was the obvious decision.