Options in MLS Forwards that Arena passed up for John Wolyniec

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by drace768, Feb 28, 2004.

  1. drace768

    drace768 New Member

    Jan 29, 2004
    Dallas, TX
    I have compiled a list of options at Forward that Arena could have chosen from MLS instead of John Wolyniec. I believe they are all more talented and all but Jeff Cunnigham are younger.

    First to review the MLS Forwards who are injured or "nicked up", so they are not available.

    Edson Buddle, Taylor Twellman, Mike Magee, Santino Quaranta.

    Now the categorized list in no particular order:

    TARGET FORWARDS:
    BRIAN CHING - Would have had 10+ goals last year if not for injury, led A-League in scoring 2 years ago
    NATE JAQUA - Had a decent rookie year, has very good skills for a big man and is quite young, considered one of the best prospects for US at Target Forward
    EDDIE JOHNSON - US U23, golden boot for most goals at U20 Championships, 7G 1A in 3 years in MLS

    FORWARDS:
    JEFF CUNNIGNHAM - 53G 39A in 6 years in MLS
    DAVID TESTO - US U23, A League ROTY '03
    ALECKO ESKANDARIAN - US U23
    CHRIS CARRIERI - 19G 17A in 3 years in MLS
    JAMIL WALKER - 4G in just 365 min in MLS, plus 1G 2A in '03 playoffs

    FORWARDS/MIDFIELDERS:
    EDDIE GAVEN - US U17 U23, one of the best young prospects in US Youth Teams
    ARTURO ALVAREZ - US U20, see EDDIE GAVEN above

    If you were wondering, Woly has 9G 3A in 5 years in MLS.

    Why would Arena pass on a development oppotunity for so many young forwards who are clearly better, for some MLS journeyman? He even has better choices if he is determined that it must be a target forward.

    Given this list, does anyone know what Arena is thinking?
     
  2. Tmagic77

    Tmagic77 Member+

    Feb 10, 2003
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    He probably had just watched Woly's 50 yard volley goal just before he picked the squad. I agree with you though, if he in any way figures into the national team pictures for 2006, we're dicked.
     
  3. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    -Ching is also injured, as i recall reading a SJ report from La Manga Cup....
    -Testo has never played a 1st div. game in his life (well, if some people complain of the same about Cooper, I might as well try to maintain some consistency here)
    -Jaqua got some minutes, but still not enough to warrant a call, I think....not that I'm extremely pleased with Arena thinking Woly is like the only choice we have

    Now, if all that remain in your list, who has similar characteristics to Woly? I am a Metro fan and I honestly think there are better forwards than him available....OTOH, knowing (or rather WATCHING) how Arena will usually try to peg players to his system rather than the other way around, I have to think he sees characteristics in Woly that he likes and better FIT his system ....That is, of all the players that are available to play in MLS, not necessarily is Woly the best, but one that helps Arena's system be more effective (maybe only vs. minnows?)....Other than that i do not know why Arena made this choice....

    If there was a chance, i'd play Ching, or Buddle instead, but they are both hurt...And if i had any flexibility in the kind of forwards to look for, I'd call a bunch of other forwards before Woly, to be honest.....But Arena can be tactically hard-headed at times, and it shows here
     
  4. drace768

    drace768 New Member

    Jan 29, 2004
    Dallas, TX
    I just read that too, although not quite injured, since he has gotten some PT, but sounds like he would fall into the "nicked up" category. Also Buddle played one half in a scrimmage, so he sounds like he might be more recovered than I thought.
    In a situation like this, where you are limited on call ups, I don't think Arena worries about minutes warranting a call up. Remember against Wales last year he was going to bring in Quaranta because of potential and when he got injured replaced him with Eskandarian. Those were call ups made almost purely on potential. Jaqua has the potential to be a real contributor to the USMNT over the next 10 years. Woly seems like roster filler. I would think you this type of friendly is the perfect chance to bring in young talent to "blood" them to the international game.
     
  5. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ching had a muscle strain iirc, he wasnt seriously dinged up and he played in the last La Manga game, scoring.

    He is coming off a major injury, but well that didnt deter Arena from calling up Wolff.
     
  6. coldfusion

    coldfusion Member

    Dec 3, 2003
    SoFla / SoCal
    Or Casey, or Cooper, who are in season in Europe. No knock on Wolyniec, but watching any of these guys play would be more interesting, and bringing any of them in (with the possible exception of Ching) almost has to be more useful in the long run.
     
  7. Ringo

    Ringo Member

    Jun 10, 2002
    Rough and Ready
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    he played in tonights game in La Manga and scored in another quakes win. jamil walker scored to.
    obviously bruce no longer deserves to be coach if these two aren't in camp. :)
     
  8. drace768

    drace768 New Member

    Jan 29, 2004
    Dallas, TX
    Re: Re: Options in MLS Forwards that Arena passed up for John Wolyniec

    I definately agree that Casey or Cooper would be better call ups than Woly, but since they are in season, it is doubtful their teams would release them for a meanignless friendly. That is why I only listed the MLS Forwards that were overlooked. Not sure about your knock on Ching. I don't think he is true International quality, but before he got injured he was entertaining to watch at SJ.
     
  9. coldfusion

    coldfusion Member

    Dec 3, 2003
    SoFla / SoCal
    Re: Re: Re: Options in MLS Forwards that Arena passed up for John Wolyniec




    I sure hope Ching is higher on Il Bruce's depth chart than Wolyniec. He looked very good in the McBride slot one time last year. I just meant that the other guys are younger.
     
  10. drace768

    drace768 New Member

    Jan 29, 2004
    Dallas, TX
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Options in MLS Forwards that Arena passed up for John Wolyniec

    Understand, and agree, the younger guys have more potential. FYI, Ching is 25, Woly is 27.
     
  11. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Bruce was looking for a tall guy who would run his behind off, he should have picked EJ, to help his development. If he were looking for a classic big target forward, he should have taken Jaqua. Calling in Wolyniec is a waste of an opportunity to bring one of these much younger and much much more talented players along in a game that isn't make or break. Wolyniec is the definition of a roster filler. Shameful.
     
  12. JerzyRebel

    JerzyRebel New Member

    Sep 18, 2002
    Land of Paulie Walnuts
    All this Woly-hating is seriously pathetic. Don't you people have anything better to do than to bicker about why Bruce is calling Wolyniec has the last guy on his roster for some meaningless friendlies? Did it occur to anyone that Bruce saw something he liked in Woly or that Woly brings some things to the table that people are overlooking?

    Are there players who seem more logical as choices than Woly? Sure, but even some of the people mentioned have their own question marks.

    Ching-Got a call-in for the San Jose/D.C. split squad U.S. game, perhaps Bruce didn't like what he saw in the game or the camp. As for him scoring 10 if he doesn't get hurt, you start Woly next to Landon and he gets as many goals as Ching. Also, wasn't Woly an A-League MVP?

    Alecko-Aside from a hat-trick against a team that didn't want to win in Olympic qualifying what exactly has Alecko done? I mean other than be a complete bust of a No. 1 pick to date?

    Ed Johnson-You mean Mr. "I can win Golden Boot by knocking in a ton of penalties but can't really do much in the U-23s or MLS.

    Logan Pause-And he did more last season to deserve a look from Bruce than Woly how?

    Jeff Cunningham-Bruce has seen him plenty and seen enough.

    David Testo-Are we serious? Let the guy play A single MLS game first. And no, A-League isn't the same as Man. U. reserves.

    Chris Carreiri-Again, an absolutele headcase lucky not to be run out of MLS and you really expect Bruce to look at him?

    Jamil Walker-Everybody loves a Cinderella story but people, the guy nearly didn't make San Jose's roster to start last season. Not sure if he has the physical build to contribute to the nats at forward. That said, if he has a 2004 like he had tail-end of 03 he will get his look.

    Eddie Gaven-Had enough on his plate over last six months (U-17s, Metros, U-23, Metros again) AND he's not a FORWARD. That said, if he becomes a full-time starter for Metros in 04 you can bet he will be in Bruce's camp come January 05, He'll be a midfielder though. At 18, I see him being on the roster for the final round of qualifying.

    Arturo Alvarez-SORRY, he IS NOT on Eddie Gaven's level.

    Say all you want about Wolyniec lacking talent or being goofy, but the guy makes plays and hustles his ass off. He also has talent. Hustle alone doesn't score that volley vs. Columbus, score the first goal in the Metros three-goal comeback against New England, score that overtime winner against Dallas or that equalizer against L.A.

    Do I think Woly's going to be a factor come qualifying? Not really, but why write him off when it's Bruce's job to do that, and as of yet, he hasn't. It would make a great story come qualifying though if Woly emerged as a contributor and blossomed. When we play Honduras it could be pointed out that Bora cut Wolyniec. I know, that's lunacy, but so what.
     
  13. jamison

    jamison Member

    Sep 25, 2000
    NYC
    He called the guy into camp, he's not starting him on the national team in a world cup. Valium, aisle 13.

    In case anyone hasn't noticed, we're not exactly money on defense with high balls/crosses in the air. He's there to get practice time and to give guys practice against him.

    You guys are going to have to grow up, show some intelligence, move beyond your petty dislike of him and all things Metro and r-e-l-a-x. Shameful? Get over yourself. Are you running the national team? Your selections are so unequivocally valid they cannot be challenged?

    No one is suggesting he is nats material. Not even the metro fans. If we have him starting actual games- not Haiti friendlies, actual games that count- we aren't making Germany '06. Everyone can see this, except those of you intent on hand-wringing this one particular selection the two very insignificant times it's happened.
     
  14. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Yes, but most of those goals and assists were last year.

    Arena already knows what every player on your list can do (or perhaps can't do). If Wolyniec plays a half in a meaningless exhibition against Haiti and falls on his face, so what?
     
  15. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This roster doesn't mean that Woly is ahead of anyone. Arena is trying different guys as protection against another injury decimation of the forward core. Arena clearly excluded Crew and Wizard players from consideration. Take those guys a way and we are arguing about Woly versus Jacqua. I prefer Jacqua, but Arena is maybe looking to see if Woly can play the McBride role adequately in a 1st or 2nd round Qualy so the rest of the team doesn't have to adjust to an injury. Unlikely, but this type of experiments is what the coach should do.

    Don't obsess over one choice in one camp.
     
  16. nancyb

    nancyb Member

    Jun 30, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe for the Wales game, there were a lot of DC players because DCU had a bye that week.
     
  17. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Campania
    Wolyniec for right back!
     
  18. odg78

    odg78 Member

    Feb 14, 2001
    North Carolina
    --Jeebus, the guy worked hard, had a good year and got called up to the Nats as a reward. What's the problem? If anything it gives other marginal players something to shoot for and can help improve the level of play. I doubt we'll see him during qualifying, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.

    What has this world come to when I feel the need to defend a Metrostar?
     
  19. entropy

    entropy Member

    Aug 31, 2000
    District of Calamity
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :D
     
  20. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Wolyniec has worked his tail off to become a good option at the MLS level. He was a difference-maker for Metro last year, at times. The travesty isn't that John Wolyniec has been capped. It's that John Wolyniec has been capped, but Edson Buddle, Conor Casey, etc. have not(except for a token Boddle appearance).Every poster on this board had those two pegged as potential contributors in this cycle before the last world cup. Yet after two years, we still don't know what they can do. We ought to hav a much better idea. And that's why I don't like the Wolyniec selections.
     
  21. drace768

    drace768 New Member

    Jan 29, 2004
    Dallas, TX
    First I want to clear up I was not Woly bashing by posting this. I respect Woly as a hard working forward in MLS. I was questioning Arena's thinking in calling him up given the availability of other options. A few things in response:

    1. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MEANINGLESS FRIENDLY. I am so sick of seeing this. The meaning of every friendly is team development. It might be a game like Holland, against top notch talent to give our first team a test. It also could be a game like Hati, which is a chance to develop future prospects for the national team and give experience to second and third choice players.

    2. National Team call ups should not be reward for hard work. National Teams should be run as club teams, where the good of the team determines how they are managed. Hard working dedicated players are cut all the time because they do not have as much talent as others on the team. The focus of the National Team should be to develop the best talent possible that can function best as a team. Plus, if it was for reward, didn't the Denmark game suffice for Woly?

    3. Arena has been one of the best at giving so many different players call ups and learning from his experience. His comments referencing the importance of youth and learning from the first WCQ cycle are very insightful. That is why a call up like Woly seems to be a mystery as to what he hopes to gain.

    4. The initial list of Forwards passed over for Woly have these attributes: Objectively, all but Cunningham are younger. Subjectively, most or all are of equal or more talent. IMO there is not much to argue about this. So the question I ask is: If you were Bruce Arena would you call up Woly and why?
     
  22. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well Casey is not going to come to the US for this friendly, even if they had to release him, his club would hate it so much it would not be worth it. And no Crew players are apparently available for this one and Buddle is coming back from injury.

    Casey will get to play against Poland and Buddle will be in the mix once he gets healthy again.

    Sheesh!
     
  23. coldfusion

    coldfusion Member

    Dec 3, 2003
    SoFla / SoCal
    No anti-Metro here. Would much rather see Gaven, Clark or even Magee in these matches. When else are you going to call them in, show them what level they have to reach, and see if they can play up to it, if not in the proverbial "meaningless friendly?" I'd suggest that what out EPL friends say about our so-called "American sporting mentality" is right, and our need to succeed, now that expectations have been raised, will soon require a changing of the guard, because our younger players are more skillfull and dangerous than the guys they will replace. For me, the U-17s were more flat out more fun to watch last year than the senior team, even with three high school defenders who ran into each other a lot. I look forward to getting the kids with skill and pace on the pitch, to start to integrate them into the full side. Isn't that what Argentina and Brazil did to us last year? The US will ultimately get better results with the younger players and it can be sooner or it can be later. I just don't want it to take crashing out of WC 2006 with aging veterans to finally get the next generation(s) integrated into the senior team.
     
  24. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm glad that you have decided that I must dislike Wolyniec because he's with the Metros. Of course, that is utter crap, but I guess you can think what you want. If you have ever read my other posts, you will see that I have no dislike at all for the Metros because I was in fact born and raised in NY and most of family is still there. I just happen to have been in DC since the beginning of MLS, and thus have adopted United as my team. No hatred of the Metros on my part. Wolyniec just isn't that good. I didn't say that he should be replaced with a United player. I named 2 players ......... 1 was a Burn player, and the other was a player from the Fire. You yourself admit that "No one is suggesting he is nats material." Well, if that's the case, why has he been called into 2 friendlies when Bruce could have called 2 guys who at least have the talent to challenge for a spot to be a nat in the future. as i've said in many other threads about several other players, it's better to get a young guy with talent and stick him on the end of the rotation, rather than pick a middle-aged guy with nowhere near the skill to ever crack the bench in a real game, just for the purpose of being a filler. this time could well be used to develop someone who just might have an impact with the nats down the line.
     

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