Ok, its still 60 some days away, but with the signing of Igor our roster is pretty much set. What will the opening day lineup look like? Let the speculation begin! My lineup: Meola Conrad-Garcia-Burciaga Zavagnin Armstrong-Gutierrez Preki-Klein Wolff-Simu
The formation will be interesting. They finished the season with Conrad, Guti, and Garcia on the back line and Klein on the left. I more expect: -----Meola Conrad-Garcia-Burciaga ---Zavagnin-Guti Klein---Preki--Armstrong -------Simu ----Wolff With quite a bit of interchange between Igor, Preki, Klein, and Armstrong
Thats basically the same lineup. I left it free of any left right designation because the middle 5 (Simu, Preki, Armstrong, Klein, Guti) generally would have free roles.
I think this will be our starting 11, it's just a matter of where our mids and forwards set up and what kind of freedom Danger Bob gives Preki Igor and Klein
Re: Re: Opening day lineup I'm pretty sure Preki has been assigning his own on-field freedom for quite a long time. I think all three will be given a free role behind Wolff. It worked at the end of last year, why can't it this year?
Perfect, exactly what I was thinking. However, doesnt Bob want a "target type" up front? First defense sub: Thomas First MF sub: I'll still say Gomez if KC is leading or ties, Diego Walsh if we are trailing First forward sub: Harris, 2nd is Arnaud (unless Taylor is awesome) James
i agree with you guys. the thing i think gets even better for us though is when Klein, Garcia, Z, and Wolff are gone and we bring on Diego Walsh, Shavar Thomas, Zotinca, and Taylor. I think that is where we see the improvement over last year. When we have a credible second string we might be able to avoid that middle of the season slump. This year that middle of the season slump will include several Qualifying matches and the olympics. All MLS teams will be struggling, and that is where we will be most tested. Are our new guys good enough? This year, we could see some real trial by fire matches for the new Wizards.
Lets say Arena decides that for the June qualifiers he wants the four Wizards he has been currently taking (unlikely since the Euro players will be out of season and available to go play) and Jose makes the Olympic team. Our lineup would then be something like this... Meola Conrad-Thomas-Guti Armstrong-Gomez Arnaud-Walsh Preki Simu-Harris Not quite as appealing if you ask me.
Re: Re: Opening day lineup Certainly not, but certainly a solid team, still, assuming no injuries. Our "b" team still doesn't cut into our developmental spots...
-----------Meola------------- Zotinca-Conrad-Garcia-Burciaga ---------Zavagnin---------- Gomez---------------Gutierez -----Preki----------Klein--- ---------Igor------------ -------------Wolff-------- I know the two things that stand out here that people will question, Zotinca and Gomez, so I will address those topics now and get them out of the way. It all stems from Burciaga being in the back. The kid has mad ball skills and will be moving forward, we need the same on the other side. That answer is Zotinca, there is know question to his improvement last year and his ability to contribute out of the defense, this also allows Conrad to use his heigth in the middle where it will be more appreciated. There is know question that Gomez has made improvements each and every year, he is making much better passes and his defending is better, putting him in there behind Preki will help to slow down the inevitable midfeild transition to the point where Zavagnin will be able to close it down. Gutierez out on the left wing will be able to interchange with Burciaga, it will also slow down the midfeild turnovers which plagued us last year. Preki naturally drifts right and thus brings his marking defender(s) with him cluttering up the space for Klein in his traditional right wing. Putting Klein out left leaves him more open and able to hook up with Igor while giving the option to switch fields to Preki. Main Points -the triangle d-mids. Only one is a true d-mid and that is Zavanin, by putting the more offensive d-mids out wide it will help cover Preki's lack of defense and the defensive pushes. -Freeing up Klein -Almost everyone attacks, the only person who is not going forward is Garcia. -Offense, Offense, Offense, You can't win a game if you don't score goals.
We had better freaking win with that formation... ...cause we'll have 12 guys on the field. The feared 4-5-2 will surely get 'em!
Depth The thing I like about this roster (on paper at least) is the depth! Everyone pretty much agrees with this lineup (the positioning could obviously change): Meola Conrad-Garcia-Burciaga Zavagnin-Gutierrez Klein-Preki-Armstrong Wolff-Igor Now assume the worst case scenario: -Klein, Garcia, Zavagnin with USMNT -Wolff, Burciaga w/ Nats or injured IMO, our second string lineup matches up favorably with any other team in MLS. Meola Thomas-Conrad-Gutierrez Zotinca-Gomez Arnaud-Preki-Armstrong Igor-Harris
Re: Depth Well, lets not get too ahead of ourselves. That lineup has its obvious weaknesses. No "destroyer" in the midfield. (Zotinca, at least from what I saw last year, is no substitute for Zavagnin.) The most glaring issue would be the back line. Conrad, for all his help on set plays, at times showed a weakness in man marking. Thomas is an unknown at this point, and Gutierrez is not made for playing (especially on the outside) of a 3 man back line. Gutierrez is yet again a huge question mark. Its almost like having Gutierrez and Preki on the same roster is a problem. Guti is best suited, as quoted by Meola and past coaches, as an outside left back in a 4-4-2 (where he was his last year in Chicago). It is virtually impossible to play a 4-4-2 with Preki and have success. If you do, Preki at forward sacrifices speed and Preki in midfield sacrifices defense. And frankly a 4-4-2 with a diamond midfield might not be so bad, but we don't have a counterpart to Guti for the right side (don't even mention Klein!) Thus Gansler is forced into a 3-5-2 or more like a 3-3-2-2 formation that we ended last year with. In that formation, there just isnt a position that best suits Gutierrez. Granted, I put Guti in "my" lineup, only because I truly believe he is one of our most talented 10 field players. But I wouldn't at all be surprised to see either Gomez or Walsh instead of Guti in something like this... Meola Conrad-Garcia-Burciaga Zavagnin-Gomez Klein-Armstrong Preki Wolff-Simu or Meola Conrad-Garcia-Burciaga Klein-Zavagnin-Armstrong Preki-Walsh Wolff-Simu One thing this shows is that there is depth and options. A couple nagging injuries shouldnt jeapordize our season and we should be able to handle losing players to callups. The biggest unknowns are Thomas and Walsh. Was Thomas wasted last year on a defense that just plain sucked? Is Gomez going to be an everyday player for Bob, if so it appears that it would be in a second d-mid role opposite Z (same formation as 2000, remove Q insert Gomez). And last, will Walsh be a field player with Preki, or the sub for Preki? From the little I've seen of Walsh he looked to have the potential to be a good creative midfield. If we got Preki, Walsh and Igor together it would be fun to watch but we'd definitely lose out on the defensive side of the ball.
---------------Meola---------------- ------Conrad-Garcia-Burciaga------ Zotinca---------KZ--------Armstrong ---------------Klein----------------- --------Preki----------Igor---------- ---------------Wolff-----------------
That lineup, and more importantly, the fact that most agree (or sub in one player from last year's roster), begs the questions of why all the trade maneuvering to move up to assure Taylor, bring in Thomas, etc. I understand Simu wasn't in the plan until yesterday. The standard of a R1 guy is "Immediate starter on most teams". If he isn't of that quality, why trade up? I'm most surprised that not one person has suggested Taylor ahead of either Simu, Armstrong, or Harris Obviously this thread gets more interesting after seeing the "first look". Still, if nobody has confidence in Taylor cracking the first 13 or so (and if they're right), then the trade up was a rediculous idea. Embarassment of riches up top might be trade bait later.
Re: Re: Opening day lineup Looks like Dude will be surfing the bench for a while... ...until an unlikely injury or two puts our starting forwards out for a while
Re: Re: Opening day lineup http://www.kcwizards.com/news/interiornewspage.asp?story_id=7UF4DTX7K7C5DBPU94S2JVNS8S Couldn't it be that Curt Johnson actually "traded up" so that he could unload Talley and Quill's salary so that he could sign Igor and/or have money to sign a new discovery pick to replace Igor? This sure doesn't come across to me as a classic "trade up" situation. Dallas had to have some desire to have two proven veterans for the price of an unproven youngster, and trading down three spots didn't seem like that big of a deal.
Opening lineup is one thing. We also have to keep in mind the bench. With call ups, injuries, multiple-game weeks, the 'b' will get plenty of action. I'm looking forward to another great season. I hope Danger Bob gives some of the new guys some playing time. We never would have heard of Damani Ralph, if he wouldn't have gotten the opportunity.
Re: Re: Re: Opening day lineup Finally somebody gets it. Dallas knew they would still get the two guys they wanted in the draft anyway and were also willing to take two potential starters along with their salaries. Trading up to get Taylor who would have probably been there on the 17th pick much less the 7th was pretty funny. Both KC and Dallas walked away thinking they got the better end of the deal and feeling they fooled the other club.
I'm in CJ's corner, I hope it works Yes, but that has little to do with the merit Taylor's value at #3, which was my point. Since you opened the can...Loder reported that Simu's signing was a direct result of his agent calling KC long after the fact - basicly out of the blue. KC had moved on from the idea of having Simu and was searching for another player. By the article, that process was going poorly. CJ himself sounded relieved. Any unguarded emotion from CJ is very telling as he usually says nothing readable or of consequence. KC wanted Igor, but not at offered Price. This board sure seemed convinced Igor was worth more than offered and should have been signed long ago. Ostensibly (sp?), no different than Preki's ouster post-2000. Post-fact, very different as Igor caved to the default $ offered - good for CJ. Half the mistakes CJ make get bailed out like Forest Gump somehow. The other half are what we grouse about. Other than Garcia, we are all still waiting for the absolute resounding win in any move by CJ. Look up and down the media guide at the "How acquired" section. Every move CJ is responsible for (allthough he flatly refused to be responsible) is either a wash of sorts, jury is "still out", or it's an admitted loss. That's a 1-x-x record to date. Not to bash CJ completely, time is on his side in a few of these situations. Back to the point, before the defensive reaction. Nobody on this board had Taylor (or Walsh) denting the top 13 or so field players. Regardless of the other reasons, if Taylor isn't an impact guy within 15 months, Dallas wins and this trade should be considered yet another draft-day failure for KC leadership. Simply, you do not trade up to #3 for bench depth while giving up 2 "proven guys".
Re: I'm in CJ's corner, I hope it works Its not as complicated as you're making it out to be. Was it documented anywhere who initiated the trade? Not that I'm aware of. Regardless of what happened with Igor (notice I mentioned "Igor/new discovery players") one fact still remained. KC was cash strapped. Dallas, obviously, needs some fresh blood and for them preferably players with experience. So really no matter who initiated the trade both teams got what they wanted. From your words its really coming across like you think the main focus of this trade for KC was the trade up to the #4 position. I think you're dead wrong. I think the draft picks were just a consolation to what the real trade was: KC (in order of their importance, IMO) got rid of cap room, unloaded two midfielders (arguably, at the time, our deepest position), got an unproven defender with potential (adding depth where we needed it), and went up three spots in the draft. Dallas (again in order, IMO) got two proven vets for their midfield, unloaded a first round pick that wasnt working out for them, traded down because they really wanted Quill and Talley. Those two proven guys provided the money for us to sign a discovery player. Your correct that KC/CJ was lucky that Igor called and said he'd take the offer, but either way we'd have needed that money to sign someone else. So simply, the trade was not about the picks. It was about money for KC and veteran leadership for Dallas.
Re: Re: I'm in CJ's corner, I hope it works I totalley agree with BenC. Look at our roster pre-draft day. Left sided midfielders we had Quill, Armstrong, Gutierrez and potentially Klein (if needed, based on the end of 2003). At D-mid we had Zavagnin, Gomez (based on his position during much of 2003), Zotinca, Talley and Gutierrez can play their too. Quill was a starter, but Talley was a spot starter at best. With the depth at both positions these two were expendable. We basically shifted around our depth at left-mid and d-mid for depth at defense (Thomas) and forward (Taylor), while at the same time dumping salary that would be used to (at that time) find a foreign replacement for Igor. From Luder's article, it sounded like the FO had something in the work, but Igor had a change of heart. Had we not made the cap space by off-ing Quill and Talley, we never would have had the coins in our pockets to sign Igor when he came crawling back!! Great move CJ!
Here's how I see the trade going down. KC and Dallas are in negotiations to trade the current roster players. They finally agree on Thomas for Talley/Quill. Then, just as the Burn get up to leave the room, KC says "hold on, Dallas. That fourth pick you've got, it wouldn't change anything it it became the seventh pick, would it?" Dallas says, "No, our guy will still be there" KC says, "You see, this Joseph Ngwenya guy we really want could still be there at four, but not at seven. Why don't we swap those picks as well--Lamar is always telling us to help each other out." Dallas says, "We would do it, but wouldn't that be a little fishy--trading a fourth pick for a seventh pick?" KC says, "Why don't we throw it in with the other trade? And if we end up having to take the next best forward, who would otherwise go in the 3rd round, that'll confuse the sh!t out of the message board geeks!" Dallas: "Fine, whatever."