I like this photo of him against the giant Koller http://futbal.zoznam.sk/userfiles/Image/MS%20zapasy/koller%20onyewu.jpg
frankly. i have to imagine he would start pretty quickly. It really doesn't make sense that he would turn down madrid, chelsea, or lyon, to sit on the bench in Marseilles. This is no offense to Marseilles, it's just that his agent repeatedly stated that Onyewu wouldn't transfer someplace (like a Chelsea) just because they were a big name, and was more interested in a place where he could play immediately. If he was to sit on the bench, why would he have not gone to any of those teams and earned a lot more money and fame? As far as marketing, I don't quite see it. I am sorry, I enjoy French football, but I have to say, it is definitely the 5th watched European league. You are hard pressed to find their matches anywhere. The Premiership is far and away the number one watched league in the US. Spain and Italy are the 2nd and 3rd. german soccer is the 4th. Honestly. I think the Mexican league and the Argentinian league are probably watched a lot more as well, with the number of Hispanic immigrants here. This doesn't mean the quality of French football is bad. It doesn't mean it isn't better than those other leagues. But it is a fact, it's almost never shown here in the states. Finally, i am not sure how you can say the either zubar or rodriguez's careers are any better than Onyewu, particualrly on the international stage. Onyewu acquitted himself quite well in the world cup (and if you don't think so, why do you think so many big name teams were after him, his games at Liege?). I didn't see either Zubar or rodriguez at the cup. Sorry. You can say that you think they are better players, but you can't say their careers have been outstanding compared to Onyewu. They have played for bigger pro clubs. (They are also French and have an inside track compared to an American.) But they have not had the National team career that Onyewu has had so far. Nor, have clubs like Madrid or Chelsea been pushing for them. More power to Onyewu for not making a Sean wright phillips mistake. He knows that madrid just signed Cannavaro and that Chelsea will be getting John Terry back.
"Lubar" is only 21 and developing with the under-21 national team not only because of his relatively young age, but also because we have the likes of Thuram and Gallas, as well as older, more experienced players available. Hence, he would logically remain at home during the World Cup. Also, it has to be said that the US quickly elevates their younger talent into the main squad, like Convey and Onyewu. Other national teams usually rely on their older guard because they have sufficient depth, and this is especially true for France. I think he can develop into a better player than Rodriguez, but the latter's value at this moment is his experience. The Marseille defense has two very young starters, Zubar and Taiwo, and no anchor at the back to direct and command with Beye making runs on the flank. As a result, if you look at their performances after Rodriguez's arrival, it presents a much more reassuring picture. As for trophies, he has a number of them, including a L1 trophy. Concerning being linked to 'big clubs,' that's a pretty weak case for the relative prestige of one's career considering the frequently questionable nature of the interest. In any case, if he's been linked, that's good for him, really. But it doesn't mean a whole lot about his skill. Emon will choose who he decides is better, and quite frankly, that is exactly the problem with deals that guarantee playing time (if that is really what the deal implies, something nobody seems to doubt). Managers do not truly understand how his player is going to fit in until he sees him in action. Especially in this situation where the value of the incoming player is not as high as those who have already fought and won their spot - this is the perspective of the fanbase. Also what is interesting is that Diouf has stated "C'est un garçon capable d'évoluer à tous les postes de la défense." So if you're thinking he's been targeted for a CB role...
Interesting that you would make this declaration which is completely inconsistent with your argument that this deal was completed, in significant part, due to marketing considerations. Where is the evidence or logic to back this assertion? It is the very definition of a conceptual motive derived from emotion...probably due to a lack of understanding of the player and his attributes/circumstances. You then attempt to support this mere conceptual notion with frail arguments. You asserted that this was "simple business logic." Why on Earth would a team like OM spend $4mm on a player for marketing purposes? If marketing were a significant part of their decision making, why wouldn't they go after East Asian players? Have they asked Liege exactly how many Onyewu shirts they've sold? "Expanding their visibility" is an equally absurd argument. If they wanted to do so, they would have been much better off coming to the US and doing a summer tour like Milan, Liverpool, Man U and Real Madrid. Are you claiming that OM have such little business sense? Someone else claimed that $4mm does not signify a player whose worth is significant. That ignores the fact that his contract is up in 6 months. Surely, you can understand that a transfer fee for a player in his last six months of a contract is going to be artificially depressed. According to reports, Lyon wanted him in 5 months on a free. $4mm has to be at least a 50% discount to true perceptions of his intrinsic worth. As for playing time, you have asserted that he would be a bench player or one for the reserves. I don't know what you mean by "bench player." If you mean that he would be a regular part of the squad rotation but not a guaranteed starter, then that would be a legitimate argument. If you mean a player who mostly sits, then that would be illegitimate IMO. Most of the cursory evidence anyone has that is publicly available would suggest that he's likely to be a significant part of the 1st team rotation. First, no one outside of the really big clubs would spend the equivalent of $8mm on a player that they expect to sit on the bench. Second, Gooch has had a lot of interest, and at least equal to any other consideration, he has prioritized playing time. Third, the comment about his versatility as mentioned by a club official also suggests that he will not be on the bench or in the reserves most of the time. This is probably a reference to the fact that he started out as a RB at Metz and during his youth. That Ferreria guy is pretty old, and there doesn't seem to be anyone of worth in the central defense other than Zubar/Rodriguez. That seems to augur plenty of playing time for Gooch and not just sitting in the Reserves. Fourth, that same club official suggested that they may have some core players leave soon. If Zubar is as good as you say, he may be one of those guys sold by OM to a bigger club, which would open up time for Gooch. The only assumption on which we probably agree is that some folks may be a little overzealous when they say he will step right into the starting lineup. It takes time for players of any level (e.g. Schevchenko) to acclimate themselves to a new league, especially when that league is of higher quality. OM may wisely use the rest of the season to get him blended into the team and to become acclimatized to the level and nature of play there. In fact, I would hope that they would ease him in as a Gooch fan. However, that does not mean that he was bought to sit on the bench or to be in the reserves as you have claimed...and it certainly does not mean he was bought for marketing purposes.
oh matt...at least Li Tie was a starter the first year before injuries. Inamoto signing for Fulham was not for marketing, but Arsenal signing Junichi was definitely a ploy. A more accurate example would be Dong Fangzhou at United...his value to United seems verz limited and its no surprise that it took a CHINESE preseason trip for him to play his first game for United. as for Onyewu, it works for both ways, but I do think he has quality to replace Rodriguez. But does he have the leadership skills? I dunno. tbh, he does not seem to be the anchor that Marseilles needs, but I hope with playing time, he will develop this, because he is still young and fairly raw. When I brought up the possibility of signing Onyewu in the hertha forums, people were quite quizzical as to why we would sign a player that was so highly thought of in America, yet had not broken out of the Jupiler liga. Most came to the conclusion that he was horribly overrated by us. I tend to agree with them actually, but theres only one way to dispell these things, and that is for gooch to play well and step up to the challenge. will be interesting to see really.
Yeah, but he is also an example of a club other than Real Madrid, United or Chelsea buying a player with one eye on his value to the brand. I spend two days a week in Brussels so I've probably seen more Belgian football than anyone else on these boards not actually Belgian or in Belgium. In fact, I've probably seen Gooch play more often than most of his fanboys. He's thoroughly ordinary.
I've seen L'OM play a few times this year and while they look OK, the back line is not terribly tight. They require too much support from the midfield which ends up stymying their ability to attack - leaving Ribery and Cisse to carry the load. If they had fixed this problem earlier, they might be a bit closer to L'OL. After seeing some highlights from last night's loss against Le Mans, you may realize you need the help. Give it time, I think you'll like him (if he actually comes to Marseille). Word in the French and Italian sunday news is that Newcastle made a bid for him just as he was about to sign the papers. Otherwise, his agent is playing the media like a fiddle.
i don't know a whole lot about Marseille's backline and I'm not a big Gooch fan but if they are signing him for marketing purposes than that signals, to me, a big reason why Marseille hasn't won a title for 14 years and is in the financial trouble they have been in in the past. The only American player you can sign with any hope of breaking the American market is Freddy Adu or Mia Hamm.
Who the hell spends 4 million dollars to make 80 dollars? Its kindof the 'thing to say' when you don't know much about a player, and as well, you've also got the 'Americans can't play' thing attached. Its lazy logic, I'm afraid (I know you aren't the one proporting).
He is going to start, and he is going to start by next weekend. His name is Oguchi Onyewu and he is a god.
In reference to all of this, I am not too familiar with Onyewu's play. I saw him at the World Cup of course, and have seen a few friendlies. He seems good in the air, but clumsy on the ground to me, just my assessment. A decent defender with a good upside. I mention this because another defender currently at Marseille, Zubar, had the same labels applied when he was at Caen. And let me preface this by saying I lived in Caen for 2 years, and went to just about every game, including the year they were in Ligue 1. Anyway, Zubar had tremendous physical skills, but his football acumen wasn't the highest. He had some horrible giveaways every game, and made a lot of stupid fouls while playing either central defender or defensive midfielder. A lot of people thought he was terribly overrated at Caen and wondered why on earth Marseille would sign him (my stepfather included). But he has really blossomed this year into a very good defender. My point in all of this is that I see the two players as similar in physique. Onyewu is a bit bigger, but their tools are very much the same (speed, power, balance, etc.) If the coaches can work with Onyewu in the way that they worked with Zubar, the fellow ought to be all right.
It's a long post, so understand that I'm not going to go point by point but I think I can sufficiently respond in a succinct manner. Alright, let us look back at my first post because I think most of the misunderstanding stems from there: Here, the first part essentially signifies that he is being brought in not as an automatic starter - and here, I should throw in the word 'initially' which I think I've done in a post shortly after - but as a second string player beginning the matches on the bench. With respect to the question of how much he will be utilized off the bench is not my concern, although most people (french) are projecting that he will be behind Civelli for the CB role. On a related note, they have Beye at RB - the captain furthermore - so the most likely route of playing time as a sub would be for Taiwo at LB, another fine talent. As for core players leaving, I doubt they will come from the defense given that they've devoted the last year to shore it up. Only Bamogo (mid) is probably going to leave. Now, the idea that he'll be an autmatic starter is what leads me to say that perhaps there would be ulterior motives - i.e. marketing. Considering two factors - 1) the current starting defense is beginning to gel 2) Onyewu has not had time to integrate into the team that requires stability above all, then it is highly unreasonable to assume that not only he will be an automatic starter, but that his deal would actually guarantee him loads of playing time in any shape or form. Perhaps at Marseille, Onyewu would undoubtedly no established world-class players, and thus have better chances there than in Milan, Chelsea, or Madrid. But to assume that the deal has carved playing time into stone is highly presumptuous. Now, let's say the deal does indeed say that - and here see "unless" from the original post. In terms of player management, team chemistry etc, it would make very little sense unless his playing time is more valuable in another aspect. Given that the owner is Canadian, and the real interest manifested shortly thereafter, I'm venturing to guess that the Kachkar rates Onyewu well. But moreover if you look at some of the other speculation surrounding him, such a Sven Goran-Eriksson coming in to replace a more than capable coach, then one realizes that his modus operandi is not exactly typical. In any case, the question is this - if Onyewu has not initially proven himself to the team in football terms, how is he reasonably guaranteed time especially with the prospect of an established defense superceding hiim? My conclusion is visibility, expanding the OM name to a wider target audience, and stimulating interest. As for tours, you have to start small like this. If Toulouse did a preseason tour, they wouldn't get the stadium a even half-full. Now, however, if they brought in a yank popular with the US fanbase, let him develop and stay for a while, then I wouldn't be suprised if they actually had a good crowd going. Again, how well do you really know him given your most probably exclusive experience with Onyewu would be the tiny microcosm of the US men's team? I mean, I realize that it's so terribly easy to find Jupiler League matches on US television or on the internet, but how many of these matches have you actually seen? Unless you can tell me otherwise, then really, you should not be too sure that you actually know that much about Onyewu yourself. Secondly, point out where this stigma against Americans concretely manifests itself. Where, moreover, can one find Onyewu even referenced in the blanket category of 'americans.' I understand that US fans are perenially defensive about the 'lack of respect' that other teams show the US squad. But really, don't apply those blinders until you have evidence thereof. So far we've only treated Onyewu as a single player and nothing more.
i think onyewu is going to be a little too aggressive for the french league and yes i can see him making clumsy mistake with balls on the ground, he might also have a hard time adapting and/or being accepted into france being that he is an american and all....but has an AWESOME physique for a defender
Gooch has lived for years in France and the French-speaking part of Belgium, and speaks French. He would fit it just fine except now it looks like he will go to Newcastle. L'OM is my favorite team in France and I would love to see them truly challenge L'OL for the title. Droit Au But!
Agreed. Maybe would be best if this is all for naught though. You guys get your thread back, and US fans would get to watch Gooch's games on FSC (if Newcastle). A compromise most of us would gladly accept. Either club would be the right weighted challenge for him at this point. Its a scream hearing Matt Clark talk about his time 'watching' Gooch. Will see you on the Newcastle thread, troll buddy
Oh come now. Don't cry. Or scream, for that matter. All I said was that I have seen him play on several occasions and that this probably meant I've seen him more often than 90% of the people who regularly spuff up their kecks at the mere mention of his name. Oh - and that he's pretty ordinary as a player. I also said that. Which, presumably, is why you've fixated on me. That's OK. As to Newcastle, they never have really replaced Jean Alain Boumsong, so this move makes a lot of sense for all concerned.