sigh... and thus begins the flood there are already multiple threads where you could have posted this question https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469531 https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217252 and no IMO, highly improbable - the defense is already one of the best in france and are in the process of gelling together. He'll be either a bench player or reserves, unless this new canadian wants him for marketing purposes.
Well so much for the reports that his decision for which club to sign with would largely be based on it being a place he would get regular first team playing time..
oh the waves that one article can cause. Marseille has a good starting 11 at back with a very talented Zubar and a more cultured Rodriguez starting to form a nice partnership. The only place they might need some reinforcement is in the 2nd string. I don't think anything is official at this point, so he'd be better elsewhere.
Dude, what is this moronic 'marketing purposes'? You think Americans really give jack shite about Onyewu signing for l'OM? You've got a tiny group here at BS that's keeps up with this stuff, otherwise hardly anyone knows or cares. No club is dumb enough to spend $4M on some unknown Yank with the intention of him being a reserve player UNLESS they are Real Madrid. Wow, $800 in jersey sales. Woo hoo! He'll be fighting for a first team spot immediately, and is expected to earn it/keep it. Prediction: He'll be starting for you guys very soon, he'll play well You are a doofus. (connard)
Marketing does not only present itself in the form of shirt sales. Marseille has been very shrewd about their purchases for the last couple seasons, bringing in a hefty number of decent players for under 10 million euros. In comes the canadian, and hop, we have someone who the owner is undoubtedly more familiar with, speculated to join OM. Marketing includes visibility, and the club is playing to a North American market by bringing him in. "Americans don't give jack shit?" Hmm... sure. To deny that OM's visbility would increase is a worrying inability to grasp basic logic. In the end of the day, I find the argument that the owner wanted a familiar player that he rates well and can help the OM name abroad, the most persuasive. Expected by who? Americans? It must be, because none of the french supporter base that I've observed seemed to expect anything like a first team place, let alone a spectacular talent. In fact, what they base their opinion is that 1) he had an unimpressive world cup and 2) he played in the belgian league. Hence the notion that they expect a player coming from that particular background to supplant a back four that is starting to come together and already present a formidable force, is frankly very laughable. *Additionally, on the other hand, these expectations, which you clearly share, are founded upon what extent of knowledge of the league? The team? Or the players? Have you seen Zubar or the rest of the Marseille team in action enough so that you can properly compare their skill against that of Onyewu? It does not appear so, but please, surprise me. Starting for "you guys?" I'm not for marseille (hell no), neither am I marseillais. Maybe he'll play well, maybe he won't. But I am not arguing that. The argument, rather, is whether he is initially a good football investment and I would say it's a decent one if you're looking to bring in a bench player. As one would say, 'on ne change pas une equipe qui marche [ou qui va bientot marcher]' Honestly, so quick to go for a personal attack Must have hit a terribly weak nerve
:clapping: awesome words ilv2, very on point. typical spazzoids, get use to them thats the way they think.
I'll admit I don't know a damn thing about your guys' back line, but how many times have you seen this guy play?
Your fan group didn't buy the player, the club did. It is stupid for any club in Europe outside of Real Madrid, Chelsea and maybe Man U to talk about buying players for marketing purposes. Its just plain stupid. No rational team is going to spend $4m on a guy who can't play. You are not going to 'raise your exposure' (whatever you think you mean by that) by buying some guy and sitting him on the bench. You also have no clue what you are talking about (American fans- French soccer). We can't even watch the games here except on Setanta- which is a paid service which very, very few subscribe to. Go on Yanks Abroad, and see how many there subscribe. Maybe 20 fans? Wow- now that's certainly an audience to throw away $4m at! Its 'chic' to talk about spending money on a player for marketing purposes- makes Marseille sound like it is a bigger club than it is. Note: It is not that big yet (although you are on the way with the new stadium, etc.). BTW- I see nothing that says the new owner will spend anything like an Abramovich or Real Madrid. The guy is NOT a multi-billionaire. He is wealthy, but he got weathly being shrewd, not crazy. He'll make sensible investments. Things have to be justified. The guy who says, "let's spend $4m of your money for a reserve player for marketing" will get fired or scolded. As far as your team, since you are not familiar with the player Onyewu- I wouldn't say all that much. There are plenty of players who have come from lesser leagues and done well in France. As far as Marseille's quality- you have Cisse, who I saw play with Liverpool, and quite frankly was loaned since other players were preferred there. An American defender at Charlton last year- who many in the US still have ?s about- shut down Cisse in 2 different matches. So what does that tell me about the quality of Marseille? So we can go back and forth in this game. Onyewu was bought to compete for a starting spot, and I'm sure he will do that very well. Before long, you will respect him, and we will quit this nonsense.
maybe we do not know "how good " this player is, but we know how good are zubar (under 23 FNT captain) and rodriguez (one of the best french defender not playing for FNT, champion's league experience (13 game and final with monaco in 2004).
Here's a good link I found that shows how OM has lined up recently: http://www.football-lineups.com/games/?t=Matchs 19 to 22&campaign=14.58&g=4 Rodriguez was just acquired from Rangers so he shows up only in the last few games.
Your reasoning is screwed. You obviously haven't watched Marseille so don't comment on their quality of play. Onyewu has yet to prove himself at either an international level or at a top European club and the figure $4 million(?) isn't a fee that suggests supreme quality and a guaranteed start above all other members of the team. He will have to step up from the level he is currently playing at and there are no guarentees he will be successful. He relies on physical presence and will have to display more tactical skill to be successful.
Who said he was guaranteed to start? I agree he has to step up his game- like any player moving to a better league. By the way, how did you guys do today without Gooch? I am on pins-and-needles to hear more about this impregnable defense.
Marketing purposes? For a French side in the US? LOL. BTW, if the current backline is twice as better as Gooch does than mean you'd have lost 4-0 today instead of just 2-0 if Gooch had played?
Yes, that is a brilliant argument - as if Onyewu would have an immediate effect on scorelines once he arrives. Because, really, passing simplistic judgments and basing the fate of games on player ratings is what happens in football. If you must know, the penalty accorded was completely imaginary and Zubar - the man that Onyewu is supposed to supplant so readily according to those who have posted here - had a legitimate goal ruled offsides. Generally, it's quite remarkable to note the difference in opinion on this thread, even when the majority of opinions are not based on any logic or knowledge. Given that you are treating visibility as something quite unknown ("whatever you think you mean by that"), I'll simply say that it is a basic business move. Unfortunately, in football, the understanding of what marketing is has effectively been perverted by your Beckhams, Manchester Uniteds, and Madrids. Viewing marketing as only applicable to huge endorsement, star players, and television deals is comparable to, say, judging an entire team simple by knowing one player. Any move that increases your organization's visibility at some target audience and thus stimulates interest has a marketing element within, and judging from the response on this thread - it is already in effect. There's nothing crazy about looking at the business side of football unless you take it on flight of fancy. How familiar are you, first of all? Aside from your national team games that are few and far between, how often do you watch the matches of Standard de Liege? I imagine that because you have such a difficult time understanding Ligue 1 and OM, it should be even worse with the Belgian league. And given that club matches constitute easily the majority of games that a player takes part in, the question posed at the top is not too absurd. Sure, you probably have a general idea, but honestly to make a leap from this general image to comparing him with other players that you (and here, I mean all the 'new posters' on the french forum) have never seen, and even stating that he'll take over their positions in the starting eleven is absolutely ridiculous. Of course players from lesser leagues can succeed in Ligue 1. It is upward mobility and everyone likes that. On the other hand, what you and others are proposing with varying degrees of nuance, is that he's coming to supplant a centerback partnership that is quickly becoming established with each other and working well. In terms of management, that is a terrible plan, which follows terrible logic, and here one has to point out the chronology of the transfers. However, I can settle with this: "Who said he was guaranteed to start? I agree he has to step up his game- like any player moving to a better league." Although the question of (over)expectation invariably comes up again, and it seems like a whole ocean is dividing french and american opinion. Nothing, really. It just tells you about the quality of Cisse. The marseille board were shrewd and knew that 1) Benitez doesn't like Cisse 2) Cisse loves OM and 3) Cisse just broke his other leg. Good bargaining positions that enabled them to bring in a physical but not very intelligent striker. And lastly, don't ever say Marseille is my team. And this is after I told you, damn, at least get that right. I would say that it points out an endemic lack of knowledge of the league, but i'll just leave it at that.
I think we can be quite certain that the club has told Gooch he will be a starter. There are multiple quotes from Gooch's agent saying that he avoided Real Madrid because he wasn't guaranteed lots of playing time. That was a major factor in his choice. Further, those saying that Gooch is from Belgium is a reason to think he won't step in and start are a little off base...the best example to compare to Gooch is Vincent Kompany who stepped directly into the starting lineup at B. Dortmund from the Jupiler League. Both he and Gooch were in the best XI for the Jupiler League, and I think Kompany is a good example that a top defender from Belgium can certainly step directly into the starting lineup at a top club. Now, I am not 100% sure Gooch will start right away, and I also don't know if he will ever win the starting spot full time. But knowing Gooch's abilities well (and not knowing Zubar and Rodriguez well), I'd have to bet on sooner than later Gooch wins that spot. He is skilled as well as physical. His only real drawback was he is too physical and gets carded quite a bit. But he is a real threat on coming forward for headers, and as all the US fans saw, he was able to absolutely shut down Jared Borgetti who at the time at least was a world class striker. It should be interesting to see what this month at Marseille. I actually think there is a 50% chance Gooch is starting next weekend at centerback.
Assuming you are responding to my post above, I can see you have completely missed the joke, but that's not a surprise. Y'all think Jerry Lewis is funny. Now that is quite a mouthful. Pity it makes no sense. In a situation where there is no logic, would we rather expect a random assortment of opinion? Of course, this presumes that you would recognize logic. An American fan has the nerve to enter "your" thread, and you immediate start with the eye-rolling "your mother smells like elderberries" stuff. That's some hospitality, eh?
It was a response to the serious side of your joke, which came in a similar post above yours. Logic in this case, meaning sound reasoning rather than any conceptual motive. So indeed, the sentence makes perfect sense and clearly you grasped the excruciatingly difficult yet fundamental ideas contained inside. Really? Point that out to me. If you are citing the first post, well that's just a waste a space given the thread started for transfers and an already existing onyewu thread. However, it seems more like you're looking at my response to golazo's post and in that case I would actually qualify it as quite a civil post reponding to a pretty rude interjection. Who accords hospitality to those who do not attempt to foster a constructive conversation? And lastly, I am not french. So the references to generalisations of the french can stop.
Onyewu is probably gauranteed a starting spot. Why would he chose Marseille over clubs like Chelsea, Real Madrid, Lyon, and AC Milan.....all top clubs in the world. I dk your team and never watch them but I know that Oguchi Onyewu is a great CB. There is no way both Rodriguez and Lubar are better than him. Onyewu has the ability to be the best CB in the world in 2-3 years. I dont think you Marseille fans understand how much of a steal this deal for you is. Onyewu is the man and will def. start over either of ur CB's.