Olympic Qualifying Roster

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Marcus OMalley, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's an offensive player whose best attributes are that he hustles and defends well for an attacker.

    He's a winger. We need offensive production out of our attackers, and can't afford to sacrifice a spot for a de-facto defender.
     
  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Servania is a lock if healthy. He's not going to be back in FCD training for another 2-3 weeks, though. And has had no preseason. So who knows whether he'll even be ready for the Olympic qualifiers.

    Saucedo will be an interesting case because, of course, there's no incentive for a Liga MX club to release him for the qualifying event. Zero.

    Heck, FC Dallas has 13 Olympic eligible players on their first team roster. We should just call up FC Dallas and be done with all the hemming and hawing. You can add FCD academy alumni in Europe like Chris Cappis, Chris Richards, and Johan Gomez to round it out. [Weston McKennie won't be available.]
     
  3. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Are LigaMx clubs releasing senior team Mexican players? That would be the basis for Saucedo's getting released. Also, aren't there U23 Mexican players in MLS?

    Sands would be next up if Servania can't go.

    I'd really like to see Araujo get a shot at d-mid. But tournament time isn't the place for an experiment.
     
  4. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #79 Clint Eastwood, Feb 28, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
    As the Olympic qualifying event is a CONCACAF event, and not a FIFA event, no club is required to release any player for it. :)

    We assume that Euro clubs won't release their first team players. But for some reason assume that Liga MX and MLS clubs will. And that's usually a good assumption for MLS. Clubs seem to believe these are good experiences for their players. So FCD won't bitch about releasing 4 starters when they have games to play (Pomykal, Servania, Cannon, and Ferreira). And of course Americans take the Olympics more seriously than any nation on Earth in general. Club administrators and coaches in the US understand what a big deal success at the Olympic level would mean to US Soccer. In the rest of the world..............they don't really care so much. Other than Brazil/Argentina. In my travels, those seem to be the only "big" nations that care about the Olympic soccer tournament. And that's partly to try to "one up" each other. Oh, and Mexico too.

    The Olympic football tournament itself is seen as a distraction in Europe. The European Club Association has been trying to get it off of the FIFA calendar for years. We have to go back to 1992 since a European nation won the Olympic tournament. And that was Spain at home.

    By the way, for those paying attention to the news....................Japan is seriously thinking about cancelling the Olympics. We'll see.
     
  5. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    European clubs are in UEFA, not in Concacaf. This is a Concacaf youth tournament. It's reasonable to expect Concacaf leagues to release Concacaf players for a Concacaf tournament. If Mexican clubs release Mexican players but not American players then I would hope MLS reciprocates.
     
  6. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just read the Olys personnel that had scheduled to begin rehearsal has been suspended until further notice.
     
  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Except they don't have to. The clubs have 100% of the leverage.
    And we're now hearing reports that our first MLS club is likely to start turning down international callups. In particular this means CB Miles Robinson is likely out of Olympic qualifying. It was just a matter of time before an MLS club made this decision.

     
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  8. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    I understand clubs don't have to release players.

    Atlanta have beef with the NT, over the way Robinson was used while on international duty.
     
  9. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    #84 HomietheClown, Mar 3, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2020
    I am old school.
    There is an old adage of Country over Club that was taught to me from a young age in futbol.
    It seems in recent years that rule is being broken in Europe and now the USA but in Latin America this would be a huge no-no.
    Federations, media and fans would be all over this and slapping the club upside the head in social media and in the traditional press.
     
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup. Definitely. This is more about the senior USMNT, etc. than youth teams. in fact, we should wait until Atlanta does actually reject a youth callup to an important event, before worrying about it. Clubs in MLS have whined about the timing of this Olympic qualifying event in the past (DCU and Perry Kitchen stands out to me). But in the end.............they've always relented. As far as I know, 100% of the time. And that's because the young players really do want to go.

    And to be fair, if we look at European leagues........................there are some clubs that reject youth callups, and some clubs that always release. In MLS, the overwhelming majority of clubs seem to value these opportunities for their young players. If there's only one "bad apple" club, then that's a win as far as I'm concerned.
     
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  11. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    It started before that. No Atlanta player has been at January Camp since Gregg took over. Bello was not released for Nike Friendlies, in Florida after the MLS season, in 2018.

    This should be a bigger news story and Bocanegra should resign from USSF.
     
  12. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Atlanta is my club... I’m from Georgia, but I live much closer to Charlotte. And all my family lives in the Carolinas (minus a few here or there). So it’s much more natural for me to root for the Carolinas.

    That said, I’m glad to see Nashville and Charlotte in the league now. The Southeast is a hotbed for soccer, and I like that players could sign with Nashville or Charlotte instead if Atlanta is going to treat them right.

    Still, I’m hoping that the problems with youth development get sorted out with Atlanta. Remember that a big reason that Frank DeBoer was hired was that the FO wanted to build Atlanta into the next Ajax.
     
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  13. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    every match isn't the same the us can't play every match with the same exact style and strategy.
     
  14. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Come on. NIke Friendlies? That's a completely meaningless U17 competition.
    If Atlanta doesn't want to release a first team player to the frickin' Nike friendlies, then they don't have to. Totally their prerogative.

    FIFA tells clubs which competitions they're required to release players for. That's sorta the end of the debate. FIFA is in charge of that because its been such a contentious issue over the years.
     
  15. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Really? Well, if all youth competitions are meaningless where are all the players coming from? Why are all the other clubs in the world releasing players?

    The Nike Friendlies are probably the biggest U17 YNT tournament excluding the actual U17WC, in this country. They are televised and heavily scouted. It is a joke to suggest it is not a big deal that an MLS team, out of season, did not release a 15 yo academy kid for that tournament.

    FCD seems to have a completely opposite opinion on all this than you. Which is a real unicorn around here.

    Atlanta doesn't have to release players. Neither does any other club. But everyone else does, so is Atlanta super smart or are they uniquely dumb? If all clubs followed Atlanta's lead, FIFA would simply mandate all clubs release players for youth tournaments and make more windows.

    FIFA gives clubs the flexibility with their youth assets, but it does that knowing it is in the interest of the clubs to generally release players.

    This is all kind of meaningless as the only player this will effect is Brooks Lennon, who Kreis should be saved from selecting anyway. Maybe in July this effects Robinson, but he is easily replaced in the player pool.

    This might have had more effect if Atlanta had actually developed any of the top prospects they have signed. They seemed to now have ruined Bello along with the others. Who is next? I see Will Vint was smart and got out of Atlanta as quickly as he could.
     
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  16. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again, I believe Garber should step in on this one and mandate a rule that clubs cannot refuse to release a player for international competition.

    To me, it sends a bad message that we don’t want to send.
     
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  17. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    whats the date for the final roster again? this sunday?
     
  18. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tuesday, March 10.
     
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  19. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why?

    Does anyone have a problem with BVB likely not releasing Reyna or Chelsea and Pulisic?

    Granted ATL and MLS are far off from those levels but if we want MLS to sign and develop prized youngsters who essentially become key assets, the priority is the team.

    I would actually say, if a player is getting released for non-FIFA dates then it reflects poorly on the player who is not a real part of the 1st team and considered a valuable asset. The best compliment for a young player is a club saying, we absolutely need you for the next match.

    Most youth tournaments are a waste of time if you're already on a 1st team contract.
     
  20. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    there are two flaws on ochoa-lineups, (a) RSL handed him a starter's number and (b) then didn't dress him last weekend like he's hurt. either case he doesn't go.
     
  21. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    as i suggested previously a bit of cynical strategy might get you the services of U23 players who are club veterans, for at least the all important semi. you leave some players in the 23 who wouldn't ordinarily be released for youth games, but who are good and want to play. "graduates" or "first team, no way." you then say we either call them for the senior team or you release them for the same period to U23. you tell the club team they will be returned after the semi, which is all that matters. you wouldn't have them for the CR opener but you just muster your best 15-20 without them. the 18-23 types on a 23 man roster are only dressing to sit anyway. similar premise to we used to send the stars into gold cup at the knockout round stage.

    also, to me the value of senior team chemistry is lost for this senior game because quite a few players will be with U23. might as well experiment.

    i expect reyna to be with the senior team as an experiment. i also expect pulisic and mckennie to either be senior team or simply off. personally i would consider giving some known quantities a rest before June LoN or fall quali.
     
  22. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #97 juvechelsea, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
    i'll save lineups for when we have a roster of released players because the practical factor is so telling with the U23s. there is a chunk of U23s excluded because "too good," "graduated," or "won't get released." there will be an additional chunk of this provo list that will be either "injured" or themselves "not released." most pointedly for a lineup, the better the player, the more likely they should be in your lineup, the lower the odds they get released.

    mind you, some of the players i worry about along those lines, eg, cannon, may get released even if they start in club. but atlanta's response to our january player requests undercut what has historically been a pretty uniform friendliness to even off-calendar or youth team US games. so kind of like you can no longer take a "dest scenario" for granted, there are "miles robinson" potentialities now. MLS over time may get more snot nosed and quasi-European about calls, or at least more varied in response.

    i say this in part because i start going down the roster picking names, and it's like ochoa (maybe hurt), cannon, CCV, EPB (all maybe not released), etc. the people i would pick may not be allowed to go. i start asking myself what is the point -- that the key question is release -- and i might as well wait for the negotiated final list. the people on some revenge vendetta at U23 miss that the reason we keep not qualifying is it's usually not even close to a best-of-age-group. it's who we can get released. if this was like U20 and we got our best there would be no doubt. what is telling is not that we can't qualify U23. it's that the best U20 team in the region becomes something else by senior team level. fixing a team that plays a handful of games once every 4 years is not the stumbling block. and as i pointed out before, there is arguably a tension in how to run the team between maximizing quality during international dates, at risk they won't be released for the tournament --
    or drilling into chemistry a unit of lesser players whose release is assured. i have argued that drilling the lesser unit focuses on the wrong players for development. that i would rather give the minutes on international dates to serious senior team candidates and then make do with who i can get released for the tournament.

    when the US qualified U23 teams regularly, it was a college all star team that could camp for months, even then not our best U23s. those two only coincided pre-MLS when we were a minor league soccer country and most played four years of college.

    personally if i have a concern it's how U17 does. that is an age group where we largely control the players and release is generally not an issue. that is an age group that should line up with how U20 performs. post-bradenton the U20s are good and the U17s suck. that is more within our control than which U23s we can get.
     
  23. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #98 Clint Eastwood, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
    I'm not sure Garber can do that. This isn't a policy that individual leagues or even federations decide. There is a worldwide FIFA directive regarding the issue. Clubs must release players for "A" senior international fixtures on FIFA international dates or competitions on the FIFA calendar. That's it. Is it clear?

    upload_2020-3-5_12-8-20.jpeg
    When it comes to this CONCACAF U23 Championships, it looks like its not just Atlanta that's going to withhold players. Other scuttlebutt today is that Brandon Servania of FCD is very likely out due to his injury problem.
     
  24. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    This is a nutshell of what I was talking about above. Over time we may converge with Europe in terms of attitude towards non-standard calls. The implications for U23, January camp, etc. are straightforward.

    This then provokes the question of what U23 is best used for. Do I want to get good U23s on international dates when they will be released, even if they don't play the tournament? Like use that team more like a senior B side.

    Or do I want to refocus on availability, which then spends attention on more players less useful to the senior team. To me the point to age group ball is funneling towards the top. Putting a bunch of energy into marginal club players "because available" "because Olympics obsessed" doesn't make a ton of practical sense. An age group that generally only plays games one year out of four, which can't even get to our best players in that age, seems like wasted energy. I've pointed out before Germany struggles to qualify U23 and this hurts them little as a senior side.
     
  25. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I'd also point out an inconsistency within some approaches here, where with kids they are like more focused on development, at the expense of winning. That maybe focus on skill, or on projects who look like they ramp up better. A kid who will be fast, or tall, etc. But then we get to U23 and it's like, "win." I then watch the U23 type players and a fair amount of them look raw in some way still. And focusing on availability for U23 friendlies on international dates would be favoring access over promise.
     

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