-Local owner, check -stadium built for soccer, NO!!!! (Another Miami Fusion situation) -public with no other summer sport, check -area about the size of columbus, check I am against this unless they build a sss. I don't want the espn soccer saturday game to be cut short so that a high school football team can warm up.
you think that this thing gets done without mls coming there??? hell no, it will get done because they are... thus built for soccer... and they will have to do a great deal of work there that was and is still a phenomanal pitch... you did your self no favor in assuming that miami had a bad situation in any way with that pitch/stadium did they have a horrible owner?? yeah they had great local media coverage and the owner wouldn't stick it out or want to deal with league cash calls... thus he wanted out 49ers and Giants shared the same stadium for years... sharing a stadium is nothing new to major sports
do you really think that would happen???? has that ever happened at ccs??... that is a sss, yet they still get gridlines and HS teams they also get lacrosse realize that this could be a great opportunity for the league, the city, the town, and soccer in this country... now does that mean it will happen? of course not, and even if it doesn, it doesn't mean it will go as well as it could, it probably won't... nothing ever runs pefectly
Edmond is a great community! My understanding on new SSS requires a minimum permanent seating capacity of 22,000. The City of Edmond probably has the highest concentration of youth soccer players in the state. This City has a high per capita income (lots of doctors, lawyers etc), probably in the neighborhood of $45,000 - $50,000 with close to 70,000 residents. I look for Express Sports to get a jump start in Edmond. If a franchise is awarded to Edmond and Express Sports and soccer enjoys success, which I predict it will be a smash (hottest ticket in town) since there are no major professional sports competition. Oklahoma City's North Canadian Riverfront Development near Bricktown will definitely be the place you'd want to build a new MLS stadium. OKC voters in 1984 turn down a 40,000 seat dome stadium as part of the expansion to the Myriad Convention Center complex. Right across I-35 from the Southwest Bell Bricktown Ballpark: http://han.oklahoman.net/photo/mini/26/263051.jpg There has been interest in the past to build a new stadium on the Oklahoma State Fairgrounds which is run by the State Fair Board Trust. The Oklahoma State Fairground currently has 400 plus acres with untilities and free parking available. Express Sports should be looking at a partnership with the State Fair Board which has millions in its coffers. Old All Sports Stadium where the AAA American Association OKC 89ers use to play could easily be converted into a soccer specific stadium: http://www.minorleagueballparks.com/Allspt98.jpg This stadium has not been kept up; however, it wouldn't take more than $10 million to triple the capacity of the 8,500 permanent seats which were the oval seating around home plate and there is plenty of parking available on the Oklahoma State Fairgounds. Turning All Sports Stadium into a horse shoe shaped venue with seating for 25,000 wouldn't take $25 million needed to build a new venue in Bricktown. This setting would be very familar and much like Crew Stadium which the Columbus Skyline in the background.
Mike, I take it Edmond is a Plan B with Bricktown as Plan A. How hard is Edmond to get to from the other side of the OKC metro area? Is Edmond between OKC & Tulsa? Just trying to get a lay of the land. Sachin
One way to get a feel for the lay of the land is to experiment a bit with Mapquest: www.mapquest.com Edmond's about 15 miles north of Oklahoma City and 100 miles west of Tulsa. One question for Mike/Laramie: Is the stadium in question on the campus of the Univ. of Central Oklahoma?
Count me in as one who would not mind seeing MLS in OKC. But, to be fair, I would also like to see MLS in some of the larger markets too.
Of course, Lamar Hunt makes money off the stadium. Obviously, the ability to bring in other events is part of that. That's the thing, however. Hunt gets the revenue from those events. The question is how much revenue would Express (or whomever) be able to keep just from MLS matches? Control of revenue streams is the issue, here. I doubt Horowitz had a sufficient amount of that in Miami.
Bring it on! All these heated questions and answers...man, its like being in the war room with a bunch of GM's! Its so exciting! C'mon guys, Okc is primed and ready. It would fit with Edmond starting the ball rolling and then in a coupla' years Okc comming in and nabbing the team. And as a side bar...no, to the 89er stadium renovation, trash it and make a new DSS. My two cents worth, actuall about 1 1/2 cents. BRING IT ON! My friends, the few that actually admidt to it, and I are a bunch of sofa sitting, TV yelling, Redhawks watching, Blazer lovin', Cavalry missing, Storm regretting and Wrangler devoted fans who will support and SPEND money on the team WHEN they come. And so will many, many other people, families, businesses, etc. Imagine the marketing opportunities to 10,000 families, kids, moms and dads. Hmmmmm, makes me wish I had something to sell. So again I say...BRING IT ON MLS!
Stadium location? Yes, Wantland Stadium is located on the campus of the University of Central Oklahoma.
Thanks, Laramie. If the stadium is expanded from 11,000 to 22,000 it seems to me like parking might be a concern. But perhaps one solution would be to run shuttle buses to the stadium from various student & faculty/staff parking lots.
I dont know about Edmond but in an article in the Columbus Dispatch there was an article about the crews win, but also gave mention to Tulsa representatives being toured around the stadium by Lamar Hunt.... read into it what you wish.
Who are these purported "Tulsa representatives?" That's (st least) twice that we've heard of these mysterious individuals.
Without having read the entire thread...how much control of revenue would an MLS owner have if a team moved to Wantland? Revenue is key if MLS is to expand to OKC.
That at least seems to confirm that there is a separate Tulsa representation talking to MLS and that the people Garber referred to at the All-Star game were not the Express Sports people working, as it were, both sides of the street.
That's correct. It's a race between OKC and Tulsa to see which one delivers the better package to MLS with relation to: 1. Deep pockets of the ownership group. Remember, MLS still had losses to be financed 2. Stadium deal. One has to assume attendence would be about the same in each area. WRT Tulsa, I have to imagine Joe-Max Moore's family has to be involved somehow. His father either owned or played for the Roughnecks. I forget which though. Also, they may have the rights to the Roughneck name, which may carry some currency (hard to say). I would wager that any Oklahoma franchise would want to bring him back, even if it is in a symbolic capacity. Sachin
his father was an owner, not sure if he owned them outright or sold his portion jmm was a ball boy for the roughnecks... his dad was an oil man, iirc
To all of you who are questioning the "phantom" tulsa reps, here is an article from Tulsa World today: Breaking into the majors By DAVE SITTLER World Sports Writer 8/16/2002 Tulsa group looks at soccer franchise The movement to bring a Major League Soccer franchise to Tulsa intensified this week and could take a significant step forward before the end of the month, the Tulsa World has learned. Tulsa Mayor Bill LaFortune confirmed Thursday that a seven-member group made a whirlwind, fact-finding trip Wednesday to Columbus, Ohio. The Tulsans attended a MLS game and talked with league officials -- including billionaire owner Lamar Hunt -- about the potential for a franchise in Tulsa. "It was a very powerful trip," LaFortune said. "I came away very excited because I believe it would be good for Tulsa, and that Tulsa is a perfect city to take advantage of this opportunity." LaFortune said his staff, along with the other members of the travel party, plan to organize a meeting Aug. 29 to identify potential investors for a MSL franchise. The other members of the travel party included city council chairman Bill Christiansen; Downtown Tulsa Unlimited president Jim Norton; Metro Chamber of Commerce chairman Jim Dunn; Metro Chamber of Commerce's convention and visitors bureau vice president Suzann Stewart, along with LaFortune staff members Tom Warren and Steve Edwards. Hunt is expected to send officials for his company, Unity Hunt Group, to the Aug. 29 meeting. MSL officials will also attend and consider expanding their 10-team league. "It's important to relay the information from this trip to potential investors in and outside of Tulsa who are interested in investing in a Tulsa team," said LaFortune, who also revealed the city is close to raising the funds needed for a feasibility study. With the MSL considering Oklahoma as a prime spot for the addition of one of two expansion teams, Tulsa could find itself in a race with a group in the Oklahoma City area to secure franchise rights. The Oklahoma City group is negotiating with the city of Edmond about the potential to renovate the football stadium at the University of Central Oklahoma for use by a MSL team. "There are people in the Oklahoma City area who are looking at this very closely," LaFortune said. "We need to move quickly and decisively on this in the right direction." In addition to a yet-to-be determined franchise entry fee and an annual $2 million assessment fee, Tulsa must also find the revenue to fund a $38 million, 30,000-seat facility. None of the city's existing athletic facilities meet the MSL's stadium criteria. "The city owns land that might be a potential site. So we might be able to offer up the land and also put together an ownership group," LaFortune said. "There is a myriad of possibilities in terms of partnering with the private sector in getting this done." LaFortune said some potential stadium sites under consideration included land in the Brady District, which is owned by the Tulsa Development Authority. He said potential sites also exist in the south and west parts of the city. "We have focused primarily on areas in and around the downtown area that would have access to our highways," LaFortune said. The 7-year-old MSL is looking at several cities for expansion, including Seattle, Charlotte, Philadelphia, San Diego, Houston, Atlanta, Rochester, N.Y., New York City, Sacramento, Milwaukee and Winston-Salem, N.C. While an expansion team probably wouldn't start play until the 2004 season at the earliest, LaFortune said he hopes Tulsa would know its future with the league within the next year. LaFortune said Hunt, who has MSL ownership interests in the Kansas City Wizards and Columbus Crew, has long been attracted to Tulsa because of the city's tradition of strong fan interest in soccer. "It is absolutely my impression that Mr. Hunt is very interested in Tulsa and certainly in Oklahoma," LaFortune said. "We don't want to get into a competitive bidding war with Oklahoma City, but time is of the essence." The Tulsa Roughnecks, a member of the North American Soccer League, had a solid fan base during the 1970s and 1980s. Youth soccer has mushroomed into the largest participation sport in the Tulsa metropolitan area. "We've got to remember that this (MSL) league came to us," LaFortune said. "They saw the rich tradition of supporting soccer in Tulsa." It was after MSL officials visited the city that Tulsa officials decided to make the fact-finding trip. The Tulsa group spent 90 minutes discussing the impact the MSL has had on Columbus with the city's mayor, Michael Coleman. Hunt then conducted a two-hour stadium tour. "The mayor described the (MSL) franchise as a great benefit to the city both economically and in terms of quality of life," LaFortune said. LaFortune said the 22,555-seat Columbus Crew Stadium and the atmosphere of the game was an impressive experience. "There was great energy and excitement that you have when you attend a major league sporting event," LaFortune said. "I felt I just as well could have been at a St. Louis Cardinals or Chicago Cubs baseball game as far as the energy, excitement and support for the (Columbus) team that came from the people." LaFortune said the Tulsa group compiled valuable facts and figures from Hunt and MSL officials that will be conveyed at the Aug. 29 meeting of potential investors. That includes the league's solid ownership foundation and salary structure, which allows for parity throughout the league. "There was a strong dialogue about what the benefits are of a (MSL) franchise to a city," LaFortune said. "We were able to do a lot of due diligence. "I came away thinking this is a situation where Tulsa has an excellent opportunity to become a major league sports city."
1. Welcome to bigsoccer!!!! 2. You might want to drop Mr. Sittler a quick little e-mail that it's MLS, not MSL. It's funny, because the article has "Major League Soccer" but "MSL." 3. I'm not a moderator, so I can't edit your post, but the custom around here (due to copyright laws) is to give a few lines from the article to give us a sense of the topic, and then put up a link.
The real paper I'm holding in my hands says MLS everytime, so I'm guessing it was an early typo that got weeded out at some point... or the Tulsa World has spies on BigSoccer.
As I read the article, Tulsa is still on the short end. They don't have an I/O (unless they con Hunt into it) and they don't have a stadium (or even any plans for one). OKC, on the other hand, seems to have a potential I/O and stadium plans. OKC also has a larger market. And yet MLS is courting Tulsa, so it seems. Sounds like politics as usual. I hope that the powers that be in MLS don't base any of their decisions on what happened 20 years ago. That was then. This is now.
The real motives behind Tulsa MLS drive... Tulsa was among the original groups to initially apply for an MLS franchise in 1994. This league wanted stadiums which were grass, a width minimum of 70 feet or more and one that could eventually deliver a future soccer specific stadium; therefore, that eliminated Tulsa because it would have involved some structual changes to Skelly Stadium which would have resulted in destruction some concrete sideline areas of the stadium. These kinds of structual changes can be costly and it may not have been feasible for Skelly Stadium. Tulsa abandoned its efforts to get an MLS franchise as franchises were awarded to Dallas and Kansas City in this region. Chicago was later added as an expansion team. There has been no talk whatsoever about Tulsa revitalizing their efforts to get an MLS franchise until Oklahoma City entered the picture a month ago. Does Tulsa really want an MLS franchise or has the sudden appearance of Oklahoma City being considered motivated our little sister to the north? Tulsa Mayor Bill LaFortune seems to be more preoccupied with not being outdone by Oklahoma City. I was a Tulsa Roughneck fan in the 80's and I will be a season ticket holder if MLS franchise is awarded to Oklahoma (Tulsa or Oklahoma City).
Well.... I'm bummed at the recent turn of events. IMO, placing an MLS team on the UCO campus as described is terrible !!! It has already been hashed-out in this thread the impact of gridball on the field surface. I could care less about grid lines on the field, I worry about the effect of the 280-pound lineman on the grass in the middle of the pitch. The high school teams will tear up the grass just as bad as UCO since class 6A lineman are college size also. Football games played after the end of the MLS season still have an affect on soccer. Every game played after Halloween still shows its wear in the springtime. Furthermore, UCO bids every year for D2 playoff games (in addition to often hosting early in the tourny). Therefore, there could be as many as a dozen gridball games at UCO in November and December. So, not only will the turf be ripped up in September it will be worn out in April. Mike, I guess I'll have to defer to your description since you claim to make this commute everyday. However, I seem to remember a-hundred stop lights/signs between the expressway and the UCO stadium. All-in-all, locating at UCO really lessens the ability to bring "southsiders" through the turnstiles. As far as "plan B's" go, I'd much rather the backup plan be located at All Sports Stadium (junction of I40 and I44) on the fairgrounds. Even if the OKC mayor stays cold on this, I'd bet the All Sports Association may be interested as a partner. As far as the OKC mayor, what other choices does he have besides continuing to let the old stadium rust into oblivion ??? Regarding the Tulsa World article: If memory serves me, that site is located downtown next to the BA-expy & US75-expy junction. I'm not sure if LaFortune can pull it off, but a SSS at that site would be a boon to Tulsa. Of course, the I/O question remains... Downtrodden, Stan