My experience was the opposite. My 73 year old, complete computer novice Mom, bought one of those $200 PCs with Linspire Linux pre-installed from Frys (on my recommendation, to save her money, and to protect her from malware). Once I gave me "computer usage 1A" class ("this is how you use a mouse", etc), she never had problems, and never called me on how to do stuff (except new stuff that I hadn't already taught her). But then my brother gave her some Windows only software, and he wanted to be able to support her as well, if need be. But he's one of those people who believes that Linux is only for geeks, and refuses to try it. So, I reluctantly agreed to install Windows on the PC. After that, within 3 days my Mom was calling me constantly. She quickly got a host of virus', spyware, and adware, and her system was nearly unusable. Yes, I had anti virus on the PC, but it didn't have much memory, so the anti virus software slowed it down. She also had more general usage questions. In short, Linspire Linux was easier for her.
Flash is not installed with Ubuntu by default. The same is true of other proprietary plug-ins and media codecs. However, it's dead simple to get them on Ubuntu. Just use Automatix, which is a free script, with a GUI interface, that automatically downloads and installs and configures all of that stuff for you. Also, you could get a distro that does install the proprietary plug-ins and codecs by default, like PCLinuxOS, Mepis, Freespire, Knoppix, and many others. Mac OSX sets the bar for end user ease of use. Can't blame you there. Plus, OSX is built on top of BSD, another open source Unix work-a-like OS, just like Linux!
Follow directions? Patient? That explains a lot. Thanks for the info on other distributions. I'll definitely check out some of them.
Just throwing in my $0.02 ... If you don't know why you need Linux, you don't need to run it. If your Windows or Mac machine is stable, you don't need to run it.
That's an excellent point. I'm singing Linux's praises, but I would never try sell Linux on any of my friends, family, or work colleagues if I didn't truly believe there was a significant benefit for them, and/or not a hassle for me to support them (if they had problems, they would be constantly calling me for help, which is something I don't want). But here are circumstances for which I would recommend Linux to somebody: 1. They have older and/or budget hardware, and WinXP is sluggish. There are "heavy" distros that aren't much more efficient than XP, but you can get significant performance boost when using a well optimized distro (Mepis and PCLinuxOS and Knoppix and Freespire are well optimized). 2. They are having consistent problems with malware, or the anti-virus software is a pain in the butt (i.e. uses up a lot of resources, and the subscription costs are not cheap). In this scenario, Linux is extremely secure, and you can save money and computer resources by not having to install anti-virus. 3. They want to change/upgrade hardware. With Windows XP's product activation, if you want to swap out a hard drive, upgrade the cpu or motherboard, or do any other significant hd upgrade, you're in for a big hassle. Windows XP will no longer authenticate, and you have to go through a huge hassle of calling Microsoft and asking permission to authenticate your legally purchased Windows copy. They usually acquiesce, but not until after they have sucked up a huge amount of your time, and implied that you're a criminal, violating their license, in the process. My boss, who doesn't use or like Linux and is generally very pro MS, had this exact scenario happen to him when he tried to upgrade his son's computer to make it able to run the latest "cool games". Man, was he pissed. But with Linux, you get no such hassles. With Linux, there is no product activation, and the GPL ensures that you can install it on as many machines as you want, that you can redistribute it and/or give it to a friend, and that you can most certainly upgrade/change hardware to your heart's content. 4. Windows isn't stable. Stuff keeps breaking, they keep getting BSOD, etc. Linux is very very very very stable. You can leave it running for months with no problems. You can install and uninstall stuff to you're heart's content, without having to worry about things like "registry bloat", which is so common in Windows. 5. They're fed up with Microsoft's business tactics. Let's face it, nobody likes a bully, and nobody likes a convicted monopolist that keeps knowingly violating anti-trust laws and violating other people's IP (at any given time during Microsoft's entire history, they are fighting anywhere between 30 and 40 patent / copyright lawsuits). For some people, this sort of thing is important. Many people refuse to shop at Wal-Mart, for instance, due to their bullying business tactics. 6. They're old hardware is on it's last legs, and they don't want to pay the big bucks for premium hardware required to run Windows Vista. Once again, you can get Linux to run great on old/budget hardware. It's a great thing to save money. 7. They don't want to pay the premium for Apple hardware. Yes, MacOSX is very cool, very stable, very slick, etc. But it's so much more expensive than equivalent powered PCs. Linux can run on very cheap/old hardware, and is free and/or has minimal cost. Once again, saving money is a great thing. 8. They are simply curious, and/or they want to try something new. This is as good a reason as any to try Linux. It's fun. 9. They want to have complete control over their computer. With Linux, it's your OS, your hardware, and you do whatever the heck you want with it. With both MS and Apple, the companies have huge control over what you can and cannot do with your computer. 10. They like the idea of being a part of a larger community. Linux Distro support forums are great, with very friendly, helpful people. It's nice to be involve with that.
The last time I installed Linux, there was only one kind of linux, and it was "Linux"... I think it was one of the original Red Hat Slackware releases in 1995. I'm sure it's come a long way since then, when you had to know ridiculous code stuff to get your floppy drive to work.
That's 12 years ago, so yes, it most certainly has come a long, long, long way. Installing and configuring back then, I've heard (I've been using Linux for 4 years), was a real bear. And, just for clarification, the name "Linux" technically only refers to the Linux kernel, which is only a part of a total distribution, and is the part that handles interacting with the hardware, and resource allocation, and multi-tasking, etc. To get a full working system, you need much much more than just the kernel. You need the shells, various services and utilities, a C library, text editors, and preferably things like a desktop environment. A large portion of that other stuff is provided by the GNU project, which wrote the C compiler, C library, the shells, various services and utilities, etc. You'll sometimes hear a Linux distro referred to as "GNU/Linux", because the combination of the two will constitute a complete (albeit minimal) system. And that's the reason for the existence of so called distributions. They assemble all the stuff from the various disparate projects into a cohesive whole, with a customized installer, so that you don't have to assemble all the stuff yourself. The distributions put together a full working product. Back in the '96, I believe there was Slackware, Red Hat, Debian, and SuSE. Nowadays, there's something like 500, or 5 gazillion, distributions, which can be overwhelming, to say the least, to newbies. There's a distro tailored to just about any need or desire in existence. But alas, it's simple to stick to the top ten (as defined at distrowatch.com) or so mainstream distros, particularly the desktop/newbie oriented ones I've been trumpeting (PCLinuxOS, Mepis, Freespire, Knoppix, etc). Since, apparently, the last time you tried Linux was 12 years ago, it is very much worthwhile to try it again, using one of the above distros, particularly the ones that can run live. These ain't your Daddy's distros anymore!
I can attest that MEPIS was a piece of cake to install. Again, my issues were likely with a piece that you wouldn't use. Plus, once I figured out the resolution, that too is easy to repeat each time I reboot (almost never).
One of my friends video taped his 7 year old daughter installing Ubuntu about a year and a half ago. She did not have any issues when installing it. People it's THAT easy.
Is there a link for that video on the web, by chance? A picture says a thousand words, and in the case of a full video of a 7 year old installing Ubuntu, about 10 billion words.
That's basically saying that installing Linux is just as easy as installing XP. Basically, I've been saying all along that Linux is easy, and at least as easy as Windows XP. Your's and patrickdavilla's posts basically confirm that. Thanks!
No.It means that it takes less experience with computers. 7 yo!? Come on....that's a lot of learning curve there. Mine? I still see no reason why one would change from one OS to another. Linux is good, but I have not seen any reason as to the why's for changing. Just because Linux is easy to install as XP (which may or may not be true), that to me still not a reason. Another reason posted here is freeware products for Linux. That's still not a good reason. I can get a lot of freeware products for XP. In my book, I need to see a list of things that Linux does that XP does not do that give an advantage over one OS over the other. As easy as XP and freeware just don't cut it.
Let me be clear. I have no dogs in this hunt, but the religious fervor of the OS wars drives me nuts. JeffS has calmly and kindly provided answers to the original question and subsequent questions. I call bullshit on a 7-mo kid setting up and logging into XP. Try running XP on a 166 MHz Pentium. Not for games or other graphic-intensive software, but basic file, web or e-mail server. Much of that Windoze freeware was first developed for Linux.
Really. I have a video.....I think....Let me google. Yes. But. If I already have XP telling me Linux has freeware or was initially done for Linux, just don't change my mind to change to a different OS because I can now get it for XP. I can get all the basic freeware for work functions for XP. BTW, I really don't care either way about Linux or XP. As a matter of fact, I ordered long time ago the Ubuntu cd for an old computer and for our local non-profit agency. Everyone's computer was going to be using Linux and we would be working with nothing but freeware. It never installed properly on my old computer. But. Hey. If it works and rocks for somebody else, more power to them. I am staying with XP. I may look into Linux when someone produces a free easy installation CD.
I'd hate to sound like a broken record , but ..... You could try PCLinuxOS or Mepis. Both are free, both are one CD that has a very easy installation, and they run Live - try before you buy (although you're not buying anything - it's free, remember! ). All it will cost you is a blank CD, and some bandwidth (the download). But if it's not your cup of tea, no biggie, carry on!
If you're happy with XP (or with Mac's OS), then don't try Linux. Why change when it's working for you? On the other hand, if you want a more robust OS, or you want to be able to tinker with it more, than Linux is worth a try. I think this point has come across in previous posts. I like being able to wake up to the 12nd minute of a DVD at a specific time using one command line. Others (probably single guys with a life) don't need that. That's what you get with a command line though. View it as someone who wants it as easy as you can get it. Then you get an Apple: one button mouse. Easy, but you can't do that much. XP/Vista brings you two buttons (three if you use AutoDesk applications a lot).
That's a very good point. Most users need a truly compelling reason to switch - whether that be problems with Windows, having older/budget hardware, wanting to save money, whatever. And I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone else, one way or another. I just want to make sure that people are aware of how good and easy Linux really is, and not base their decision on all too common mis-information (that Linux is hard, not compatible, only for geeks or commies, etc).
I believe you can install any mouse into an Apple. My neighbor has a Mac Pro with a Dell (I think) monitor. And if you really like the Apple mouse, all you have to do instead of right-clicking is hold either the mouse button down or the command key + click.
I'll look into it. Believe me. I have nothing against Linux and was looking forward to my former agency using Linux as an alternative. The tech lady was going to start us on the road to freedom, but once she was bogged down with other agency tasks........oh well... BTW, does any work in an government agency, non-profit, or business that uses primarily Linux?
There are all kinds of those examples - too many to mention (and I don't really have time right now to Google it all). A few that immediately come to mind ... - The state of Indiana school districts just did a big Linux (desktop, not just server) conversion. - One of the school districts in the Portland, Oregon did a big Linux conversion. - Numerous city governments throughout Europe have done big Linux conversions, the most high profile of which is the city of Munich. - various municipalities throughout the states have done Linux conversions. Again, I don't have time to get you any links right now. I follow some of the Linux news websites fairly regularally and almost on a daily basis there's a headline of government X, or corporation Y, or school district Z, doing a linux migration. What can be said is that most organizations doing a Linux conversion almost universally want to stay under the radar. They don't want their migration to be under public scrutiny, and they especially don't want the inevitable flood of super aggressive Microsoft reps bugging the heck out of them, or the MS strong arm tactics. This last point was stated by a representative from the local Hewlett Packard campus (there's one in the general Sacramento, CA area, where I live) at a Linux User Group meeting I attended last year. He said they are selling Linux deployments and services all the time (including desktop), but almost all the customers want their conversions (from Windows to Linux) to remain publicly anonymous, to avoid the aggressive MS attack. I don't want to put on the anti MS zealotry hat, but it's sad, annoying, and a little scary that with it's desktop dominance MS can wield such power and intimidation, on both partners (Dell, etc) and customers. Anyway, the point is, there are many examples of Windows to Linux desktop conversions out there. It's just mostly under the radar, and you'll have to do a bit of Googling to find it.
A few of my IT acquaintances have confirmed the things posted in the Linux thread. In conversation, one of them mentioned a Linux product: Fedora. I'm told Fedora is easy and CD bootable. Thoughts on Fedora?
Fedora just came out with a live CD. I downloaded and tried it, but it did not fully detect my laptop hardware. But this is RH/Fedora's first attempt at a live CD, so I'm sure they're still working out the kinks. Fedora is one of those "free software only" distros. In other words, it does not install all of the proprietary plug-ins, media codecs, or drivers by default. However, it's fairly easy to get all that stuff. Their is a website called FedoraFAQ.org (if memory serves me correctly) that tells you exactly how to get all that stuff. Fedora has pretty good package management with RPM and the dependency resolver YUM, which also has a GUI interface. And there is a pretty sizable repository in Fedora Extras. Also, being based on Red Hat, you can get a lot of other stuff. Red Hat is the biggest enterprise distro, and it is the biggest target for the big commercial ISVs. Fedora includes very nice GUI config tools, so you usually don't have to enter the command line to configure your system. Fedora defaults to the Gnome desktop, but also ships with KDE. If you like Gnome, Fedora does an excellent job with it. Fedora is either a single DVD, or six CD download. That's a lot of downloading. But you could always just order the DVD or CD pack from one of the CD distributors like OnDisc, CheapBytes, or others. Fedora is a rather "heavy" distro. In other words, it installs a lot of stuff, enables a number of services by default, and is not fully optimized for speed or being light on memory usage. So for older or budget hardware, Fedora is not the best option. But if you have modern, relatively fast hardware, and have 512meg or more of memory, Fedora will run great. In my experience, Fedora is one of the buggier distros. It is really Red Hat's free distro that is used to put in all of the latest cutting edge packages, for the community to enjoy and test. Thus, it is always in a quasi beta state. I would recommend Fedora to users who've already used other distros and are already comfortable with Linux, since it is somewhat buggy, heavy on resources, and doesn't install the convenient proprietary stuff by default. I also recommend it to anyone who wants to get Red Hat certified, as it is a work alike to regular Red Hat Enterprise Linux. But I would point newbies, or anyone who wants a really slick, polished, totally easy desktop experience, to other distros (ones I've already mentioned on this thread). Fedora isn't bad as a desktop, just not the best.
I'll throw my thoughts in. I use Ubuntu Linux at work and at home, both desktop and server releases. For a novice, installing Ubuntu Linux is painless. I have installed it on a variety of machines from an older SIS-based ECS K7S5A motherboard (with the odd-ball ALC sound chipset) to a Pentium 4 workstation. The installation was 100% painless and I have yet to have a piece of hardware go unrecognized. Once installed you have Internet browsing, mail and office applications that will read and write most Microsoft office formats. Right off the CD you have an easy, basic, Internet capable workstation at zero cost to you. Now come the issues that make Linux technical and will give novices either problems or at least make them a little wary. To get the good stuff like video CODECs, Adobe reader, fonts, Java, flash, anti-virus, media players, etc. you need to start a terminal and type some information. In the case of Ubuntu you can use Automatix2 to install what you need or read one of the FAQs to get pieces installed. In the case of automatix2 you will need to do something like this sudo -s vi /etc/apt/sources.list deb http://www.getautomatix.com/apt edgy main :x wget http://www.getautomatix.com/apt/key.gpg.asc gpg --import key.gpg.asc gpg --export --armor 521A9C7C | apt-key add - apt-get update apt-get install automatix2 This will install a little program that will point and click you through installing all the goodies on the computer. If you don't feel comfortable going to Accessories -> Terminal then typing in all that you might not feel comfortable with Linux. But to be honest with you, if you are a non-technical person who really doesn't want to have to know what sudo does or simply doesn't want to have to deal with technical aspects of a computer then you will probably have to buy into a model of purchasing a computer with everything pre-installed then calling support when something beyond normal operation and maintenance goes wrong. Yes, Linux is easy but it's not as easy as just putting in a CD then sipping tea as you master the Internet and office.