Ok, Jordan Morris, is he the deal?

I'm pretty sure that there are stats that disprove this assertion. If you have a citation I'll believe you, but I think you're wrong about this.

 

Absolutely. I personally know several people who have dropped out of Stanford to start ventures.

 

He's absolutely not a National Team caliber player. I really think the average USL Pro striker could finish the goal he finished pretty easily. The ball bounced right to him in a good position. Good for him that he was able to finish it, but that should not change anything about his stance on the National Team.

He's just not ready. Once he becomes a professional and if he starts performing well consistently against professionals, then there's a discussion to be had. Until then, this is one of the more ridiculous discussions I've seen on big soccer. He is so far from being a USMNT caliber player.

 

Just one? He just scored a goal for the USA national Team in front of 65,000. I bet he cant wait to get back to Stanford....

 

Yeah, that was one of the more ridiculous statements I've seen on here. Any degree from Stanford carries loads of clout from prospective employers

 

I agree that taking all three of those players to a competition like the Gold Cup would be a little foolish because of their inexperience. I do not mind at all that they're fast, route one type players. Jurgen loves to talk and he doesn't particularly care if its the truth or not. We HAVE improved possession, but don't expect us to tiki-taka ourselves down the pitch. We have a bunch of relatively technical CBs but at every other position, our technicality is below average.

 

I assume the technical college analogy was meant as hyperbole - even a classics major can find a corporate rotation program / consulting firm / investment bank who is willing to invest in a green Ivy grad and train business skills while paying 60-100k out of college. Then you can move onto an MBA/law school if you're willing to put up with extreme boredom/bad hours for your 150k paycheck.

But you do have a point with the latter sentence - I wish I wasn't such an unfocused, disorganized and naive kid when I attended [peer institution]. If I had stopped out to do something focused in the real world and returned later to college, I would have gotten more out of the experience.

 

I watch a lot of Pac-12 games. The one issue I guarantee he won't have is fitness. Stanford is probably one of the most fit college teams you'll ever see. Also thinking college soccer is all the same is like thinking USL is just like MLS and La Liga since all those leagues are professional. Birnbaum made a pretty easy transition from Cal to DC Untied. Shelton will do well for NY. Pac-12 and ACC are at a much higher level than other leagues. Big problem is the season is short. However Morris has been playing and practicing with both the Men's national team and U23's so he's getting plenty of games and practicing. Also compare the amount of playing time he's received over the last 12 months compared to Green and Aguadelo. You improve by actually playing real games, not practicing against guys that are mostly focused on recovering and getting ready to play on the weekend while you are and sitting on the bench watching.

 

Anyone that thinks kids that get into a program like Stanford lack ambition are pretty clueless. It takes a tremendous amount of discipline and drive to compete both athletically and academically. While Morris is probably a big deal on bigsoccer, he's probably mediocre compared some of the other Olympic athletes that go there. Dad also works for the Sounders so I'm sure he's getting some pretty decent advice of pros and cons.

 

No. I'm sure he's got plenty of interest from outside the league it he wants it. He's extremely, explosive, strong, smart and has pretty good skill. He averaged a goal a game in his one year at the Academy level and was player of the year. As he refines his game (he's terribly one footed) and makes more noise at the Olympic and national team level, his leverage will continue to improve.

 

This is interesting as I would say that from what I have seen, his finishing is something that he needed to improve. There are several reasons he had so few goals in college, but one of the biggest is that in games I saw, he missed chances a top level forward should take. I'd say he was even below average at the Pac-12 level for attacking players. On the other hand he has had a ton of assists because he sees the field well and is unselfish. Perhaps he's been working on his finishing all winter as that is something one can at practice with anyone from your buddy at the park to the highest level professional team in Europe.

 

Agreed. One thing he's clearly not getting in his current environment is an understanding of high level tactical play. In general the US is way behind and his Stanford's attack from what I've seen has been rather primitive. In this regard, all that national team practices have probably really helped him.

 

You are correct - he's very one footed. Will often use the outside of his right instead of a simple hit with his left. With a bit of film, professional level opponents are going pick this up right away and its going to become an issue for him. Now Iniesta is all right footed and Messi is almost all left, but if forced both are quite competent with their off foot. I could be wrong, but I don't think this is the case with Morris.

 

Shrug. If his chosen profession is "professional soccer player," then he's ready. Staying at Stanford does what in terms of his development as a professional soccer player? I have nothing but respect for elite student athletes, the quality of education at Stanford, etc. I went to William & Mary with Adin Brown, Wade Barrett, and company. The discipline required by those guys to be NCAA players at a high level academic institution was incredible. However, they didn't have the opportunity to go pro as freshman or sophomores. And folks say "Clint Dempsey stayed a few years and it didn't seem to hurt his career." That's true. However, he didn't have the opportunity to go pro until MLS came calling with a GenAd contract. And when the offer came, he grabbed it. So yes, if Jordan Morris continues to pass on European and MLS offers, then as a soccer player (not as a human being) he lacks ambition. While he's at organic chemistry class, his contemporaries in Spain, France, Germany, etc. are focusing all of their efforts on becoming elite athletes. Now, its possible that Jordan Morris doesn't care about becoming an elite soccer player. And that truly is fine. However, if that's the case he shouldn't be called up to the USMNT. The USMNT isn't for "part-timers." In fact, continuing to call up Jordan seems to make a mockery of everything Klinsmann has spewed at us about players needing to push themselves to play in bigger and better leagues. Jordan isn't even bothering.

Folks tell me its because he wants to follow in his dad's footsteps and be an orthopedist. I have nothing but respect for that decision if that's what he chooses. If he wants to be an orthopedist, then he can stay at Stanford and study to be an orthopedist. However, he ain't gonna be a professional soccer player and also be an orthopedist. Sorry. Not happening. Gotta choose, and gotta choose now. Maybe 15 years from now when his playing career is done he can be an orthopedist.

I want to re-iterate that I wouldn't be making this argument for 99% of the players in the NCAAs. Jordan is an elite talent, however, with potential those other guys don't have. I don't want Sebastian Ibeagha 2.0 here. [For those that don't know Sebastian, he was a very highly thought of US U20 defender and even served as U20 captain on occasion. He continuously turned down homegrown offers from the Dynamo/MLS because getting a Duke degree meant so much to him. So he stayed at Duke, and he slid out of the picture in terms of MLS and the US national teams. He didn't develop. He did, however, decide to pursue soccer as a career. Now he's playing left bench in some Scandinavian backwater. What's his Duke degree doing for him there? I couldn't tell you. As a person perhaps that Duke degree meant a great deal to him, but for his soccer career it meant absolutely zippo.]

I think the whole discussion is silly anyway. Jordan's gonna go pro very shortly. He's not a fool after all.

 

Just looking at payscale, which I know is not the most credible or scholarly of sources...but, I cannot post links for some reason on my phone, so that it why I'll use that website since you can compare starting salaries for a Stanford graduate and a starting RN.

According to payscale.com;
An RN can expect $42,585 at the very lowest... Which can be argued as a good baseline for starting salary. And making up to as much as $82k; or even in the 150k range with advanced education.

While, it argues that a Stanford graduate can make up to $109k, it reveals the lowest at $42,268...

Now, there is really no difference in $42,585 and $42,268, but look at time spent in school and cost of tuition. A student is going to pay way more going to Stanford than a local technical college that can offer a comparable wage. Also, what could skew the stats is that where a Stanford grad would most likely look for a job, perhaps close by to Stanford, would have a higher cost of living... Which would translate into a higher salary. Therefore, I would argue that with a cost of living adjustment made for RN's, who may be working in places with a low cost of living; you would see a starting salary more comparable to the Los Angeles adjustment of $50,936.

Ultimately, what I think is safe to conclude, a RN degree from a local technical college is a much wiser financial decision than an undeclared degree from a liberal arts university. Also, I imagine a major difference in the demand in the job market... Nurses are in demand, undeclared degrees from big universities are not. So, yes, there could be a company willing to invest on a "green" Stanford grad, but at the same rate that people would be willing to invest in a new RN? I don't think so.

But look, I get it. I took the complete opposite path of a wise financial decision. I wanted to do psychotherapy with vets; which meant I had to get a Masters degree from a liberal arts inst. And, when I graduated with my MASTERS from UGA (which is no "Stanford" but it is still a respected university), I was making a piddly 32k out the gate which is actually far less than what I would have made out of the gate as an X-ray tech with only 2 years of college and no student debt, making nearly 50k... Ultimately, I did end up surpassing that amount, but it was not the wiser financial decision. I just wanted to be a psychotherapist more than an X-ray tech and was willing to take the hit for it.

For Jordan, my best advice would be try to make it in the pros... You don't even know what you want to be yet. If anything, you can save up the money from playing soccer and graduate with less debt when you know what you want to be. But earning a degree, for the sake of earning a degree "from Stanford," especially when you have guaranteed big money now, would not be my personal recommendation. Although, the emotional reward of being able to hang a Stanford diploma on his wall might be worth more than money, fame, and being able to play a game for a living.

 

Also, pretend for a minute you are interviewing Morris...

Option A: I turned down a chance to play professional soccer and travel all around the world and be adored by scores of fans, to get this undeclared degree from Stanford where I had the experience of studying really hard in a subject that I don't care too much about, will you give me a job?

Option B: I decided to put my education on hold for awhile, and was blessed with the opportunity to make a decent living playing professional soccer, and afterwards decided to earn a degree in [whatever], I can say that the experience of also earning my degree in something I am passionate about plus having the experience of a professional athlete traveling the world has made me the ideal candidate for this position, will you give me the job?

I guarantee you that I would pay Option B more. If you are an employer, wouldn't you rather have the former professional athlete, who has gained some life experience, and majored in something he wants to be; or would you rather have the kid who just knows how to study hard but has some random degree from a fancy, overpriced college? I'd rather have option B. I would think he was an idiot, and probably would hesitate to hire him based on his poor decision making process.

I think the bothersome thing for me is the trend that people think that every 18 - 21 year old kid knows what they want to be, and should go to college right away. College will always be there, and in the end, I believe the best students are those with some life experience and have a clear, set career goal. Nothing worse in a job than an employee with a bunch of book smarts and no common sense or life experience. That's how these "idea fairies" get created.

 

I've only seen Morris play for the USMNT, so I don't have much to go on in evaluating his ability. From the Mexico game, his pace was evident, he took his goal well, and his touch seemed adequate (though who can really tell on that field). His movement off the ball was unpolished...he seemed to jet off out of the screen, looking for the ball over the top too often instead of checking back to better connect with the midfield or moving laterally to drag the defense out of position and open up space for others.

With regards to the stay in college/go pro question, you can always go back to school. Even if it's not Stanford, there will be tons of schools who would take him in 5, 10, 15 years with (presumably) a good GPA from 2 years at Stanford followed by a pro-soccer career. I'm not at all sure what he'd give up by going pro.

 

I'm on board with those saying he has every right to pursue college and whatever career he pleases. But, if the career he wants is to play professional soccer, the sooner he makes the call the better. He's only hurting his potential soccer career staying in college. In life, you must make decisions and it's getting to be time to make this one if he wants to make the most of some opportunities. Sure, he can and should take the path that he wants personally sand it's clearly his decision not any of ours. But, we all have to grow up and decide what we want to be eventually. In some careers this point happens sooner than in others, soccer is one of those careers.

And yeah, you can always go back to college at whatever age. Professional soccer chances lessen with each passing year.

 

If this is all true....Klinsmann knwos what he saw and really was a no brainer of a gamble....

But like Lalas emphasized that night, with our politics and 'conservative' coaching at times, Morris just because of his NCAA background regardless of how good he looked in training wouldn't get a sniff for the NT like many posters on here feel about him.

Which is BS to me. If a kid is good enough especially in training against guys who do this for a living, why not play him for the NT? This kid is a freak. He is probably a 1 off case, don't compare him to any other players because it's not worth it.

 

Kudos for bringing some data to the discussion. I appreciate that. I also appreciate you relating your personal experience.

My personal experience was much less traditional as well. I had multiple years in my field before earning a BS and then an MS, but I married into a family with a ton of folks who went to big name schools for their undergrad, and I know that my wife, for instance, walked into a high-paying internship with a degree in anthropology. My daughter got a high-paying job with a degree in history. I spent her whole college career telling her that she was going to be serving fries, and she's making good money at the age of 23. It really is about the network of people who have gone to schools like that who now have the ability to make hiring decisions. So while an RN can get a jb based on the merits of their degree, an ivy leaguer can get a job based on the name of their school.

I think in the long run, you can argue that smart, competent people will do fine for themselves no matter what, but if you have a full ride at Stanford and recognize that you're going to be out of soccer at 35 no matter how successful you are, getting that degree doesn't look like a bad decision.

 

Sure. I don't have a problem with any of that.

To me the variables aren't so complex, though.
Do you want to pursue a professional soccer career. Yes or No? If you're serious about it, what is the path you should be taking to maximize your career prospects in that field? We all do this in our own lives.

I think the major factor is that Seattle's last contract offer was apparently a "lowball" offer.
We can talk about ambition, blah, blah, blah, (to paraphrase myself ]but Jordan and his family don't need the money. It makes sense that they're not going accept any old offer. [For instance Stuart Holden was making 35k when he arrived in MLS.] If Seattle's last offer was Zardes money (200k) then we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

I have no problem with a person deciding to study at Stanford. Why would I? However, a person choosing to stay at Stanford when pro offers are available should be absolutely nowhere near the USMNT. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame Jordan for answering the call. I blame Klinsmann for being a colossal hypocrite. You cant' criticize MLS players for not challenging themselves in "bigger" Euro leagues, while you continue to call up a kid choosing to stay in his NCAA comfort zone playing against Delaware and Southern Illinois (just two of Stanford's mighty opponents last season). For instance, Jordan should be nowhere near consideration for the Gold Cup team when folks like Altidore, Johannsson, Rubin, etc. are available. You know........................professionals that are more interested in their soccer careers than studying for their 8 am organic chemistry classes.

 

Hypocrite? I get where you're coming from, but it's clear the talent this kid has. A ocach no matter what he says, will have to bend his own rules if the talent merits it. That's the god honest truth.

Read what Pep says and how you have to treat each player differently to get the max potential out of them. For the NT, a case like his has to be treated differently. Why? Because it's clear he's on the same level as his peers.

If school hasn't caught up to him and lowered his 'peak condition' or his 'technical level' isn't there because he's not getting enough time on the ball it would show by now. It doesn't, and it eappears Morris is a special case and as such should be treated as one.

 

Actually he might end up playing a good deal of football in the remainder of the calendar year. I think JK is going to call Morris in to the Gold Cup camp and play him in the group stages (swapped out for e.g. Deuce in the knockout rounds). Train the rest of the summer with the Sounders and/or in Europe. Olympic quals + NCAA + fall FIFA friendly dates.