Ok, Jordan Morris, is he the deal?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by deuteronomy, Apr 16, 2015.

  1. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're making crap up. Morris broke into the team giving the likes of Netherlands and Mexico nightmares. When he was actually available in the hex he was saving our ass from getting effectively dq'ed w/ a loss at Honduras. He led us to a win in the Gold Cup final against Jamaica. Recently he gave Uruguay fits. You're ironically using also having success against Cuba as defining him like he's Wondo. Maybe he should struggle, like Pulisic, to prove his caliber.

    Speaking of which, Pulisic has fared worse in the tougher half of games on their schedule. The list of teams he's produced against in spite of opportunity is overall very weak. And in part why Morris didn't produce even more at Honduras or at Mexico in the GC final was Pulisic is such a selfish player who regularly ignored him when he was open even when he was staring right at him. Or he blew golden opportunities.

    This dovetails w/ the simplistic football world view (you're now trying to fit the narrative about Morris to) I saw you share that success or failure w/ the NT is directly proportional to the % of MLS or non-MLS players we have. Carlin would think that was a very disappointing, surface analysis (if he cared about sport).

    Remind me, where did Donovan play most of his career or Dempsey for a few years toward the beginning and end? They played in Europe for periods too. When they did they were by and large the same players for our NT. Our problem now is we don't have enough of them.

    This is not a promotion of MLS but a debunk against the pervasive, superficial, blind anti-MLS mindset. Everybody should want ballers and make the deepest analysis possible to find them in a pool that's not Belgium's or even one of our golden generations yet. Klinsmann had your attitude and he ran the program into the ground. Your solution - foolishly do the same thing that didn't make sense in the first place outside the most basic analyses because it fits your binary ideology stemming from bias.
     
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  2. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    No, but LD did.
     
  3. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    Morris does seem on the verge of seizing a consistent starting spot with the national team for perhaps the first time in his career. It helps that he's producing again in league play, even as a winger.
     
  4. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    The inventor of the stupidest statistic ever.... the number of MLS players integrated outside of January camps. I never understood why an MLS player would need to be integrated outside of January. The January camp is speculative and if a player wasnt good enough for that camp, he probably needs to put together a full season of dominating play and not just go on a hit streak.

    We are nearing the end of the third year since that horrible German supposedly ran the program into the ground. Just about every MLS player that completely suck has gotten a look. What have we found? Well of course, Arena eliminated players and those MLs players shit the bed against CR, Honduras and T&T. The players have underwhelmed and not sure there is one MLS guy I am happy about being in the starting line up.

    Arena and Berhalter have been 10x worse in their player selection. I hope you enjoy watching the MLSNT. This team is worse than anything we have had since before 1994. I bet CP, Mckennie, etc are wondering why they have to play with these low level players.
     
  5. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    why go climb a mountain?

    because it is there.
     
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  6. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Beating the crap out of a minnow does not a great player make. I enjoy watching guppies get destroyed like anyone else but that is not a true measure of our potential.

    I made the comment I did because with his drive, speed, and physical size (he reminds me a little of Shaquiri) he can handle the physical game in Europe. So he should test himself there.

    I cannot imagine a rational argument that says you become your best by training against inferior opposition (whether Cuba or MLS).
     
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  7. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    A misguided sense of validation on the part of segments of fans.
     
  8. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Morris had been excelling for the Nation Team, before the Cuba match. He has been the real deal.
     
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  9. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Morris is a success story. He may not be our starting forward as we go ahead into future years, but he is a bonafide national team player.
     
  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most European leagues consist of 3 or 4 competitive teams who spend most of the season beating the crap out of minnows.
     
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  11. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    He's also paid a fortune by MLS/Seattle to stay & play for his hometown team.

    19 year old Paxton Pomykal just got a contract extension/raise to $650k per year. His salary is higher than 25 guys who played for the Texas Rangers this season. That includes their stud all-star Joey Gallo. People understand this, right? The biggest reason that USMNT-eligible players went to Europe in the previous generation is that they got paid a lot more there. MLS is now paying them to stay.

    There are some people who don't need the validation of Europe to feel really happy with their lives and their careers. They have families. They have wives who have jobs in the states. Its their lives. Not ours.

    Jordan Morris continues to show (against competition better than Cuba) that he is worthy of getting consistent minutes for the USMNT. He makes an impact. Now if a forward/winger at a big club in Europe develops and passes him by....................then that's just the way it goes for him. So be it. But right now in 2019 there aren't that many of those players in Europe. Duane Holmes always seems injured. Tim Weah has been out injured. The list isn't that long.

    What typically happens is we call in a guy from Europe like Tyler Boyd or Kenny Saief, and after a couple of appearances we realize that they aren't actually better than domestic options. Then everybody on this board moves on to decrying the lack of callups for the "next guy" from Europe. The cycle continues.
     
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  12. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It isn't black or white... just because a guy doesn't play in Europe doesn't mean that he is inferior to a player that is.... but on average I would likely be in favor of the player in top-flight Euro. MLS is definitely improving so I see the differences shrinking.... but a player getting 1st team reps in the EPL or Bundisliga is still playing against stiffer competition on a weekly basis and that is not likely to change anytime soon.

    In this case, Morris has proved to me that he belongs. I can't say for certain that he will be starting for us in 2022... but he has certainly earned his slot on the team. Major kudos.
     
  13. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Right.................but the number of players we have getting routine first team minutes in top flight Euro divisions is really small at the moment.

    All we as fans can ask is that all of these players be brought in and compared by a USMNT coach side-by-side. All of this comparing of leagues is difficult and pretty much a waste of time. Just because a player is in Europe, doesn't mean he's better than an MLS option. And vice versa. An MLS player isn't necessarily better than a Euro that's not getting much time.

    I have eyeballs. I've watched Jordan Morris since he's returned from his significant injury. He's one of the most dangerous attackers we've got. It doesn't matter that he's at Seattle and Tyler Boyd is at Besiktas. I see that on the field Jordan Morris is more impactful against the same opposition.

    I would say that the domestic players like Morris benefit a lot from January camp and subsequent friendlies. Those players have a chance to work with the USMNT staff for a month. So we exit that camp with domestic players that have done well (in the staff's eyes) "in the driver's seat" for more opportunities throughout the year. A fringe European player, like say Duane Holmes, doesn't have that same opportunity. Of course Duane has had some bad luck with regards to timing of injuries. He would have been on our Gold Cup squad this summer if not for an injury.
     
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  14. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Keaton Parks has improved significantly in his time in NYC.

    His positioning was always good but his passing has become much more incisive.
     
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  15. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's continuing to improve and produce for the NT. That's all you can ask for, and that's all he needs to do.

    We often see MLS players stagnate. Trapp is the same as he was 5 years ago. Altidore is the same as he was when he came to Toronto, including frequent injury issues. Arriola's still a hard-working winger who plays hard in attack and defense... and not nuch in terms of production, particularly at the International level.

    But Morris had some significant holes in his game when he left Stanford. He was just a one-footed striker with speed and physicality. He's clearly put in significant work on his deficiencies.

    - His runs are smarter, putting his athletic strengths to better use.

    - His crossing is vastly improved, so when he's a winger for us, he doesn't always have to cut inside, or make an inside run.

    - His left foot is not a major weakness anymore. So much so that he's actually scored some decent goals with it, and his crossing with his left is also much better. Night and day from that first goal against Mexico to now.

    MLS doesn't always develop players after they make it into the lineup, but Morris is a point in MLS's favor. As is, by the way, Jackson Yueil.
     
  16. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I give Morris a lot of credit, he's been great for the NT lately. When others - like Boyd, Lovitz, Arriola haven't been.

    He's earned a starting spot, lot of respect for him.
     
  17. striker

    striker Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    Leverkusen vs. LFC in CL competition. Donovan was awful in that match. He played like a player who was scared to have the ball.
     
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  18. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    He could get better in Europe, but he could also end up on a bench or he could float around. I prefer to see a guy who proves it in a top league, but in the last couple games he's been one of the best attackers so I'm fine with letting him get more time. If he keeps it up, great. A good player is a good player. He's not what I'd consider proven yet, but we pack strong, fast attackers that can do anything to press the issue and Morris at his best brings that.
     
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  19. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just as important during these games to identify who we can't trust vs. who we can. Lovitz has not impressed at all. Arriola can play D but is pretty bad as an attacking option. Boyd showed initial promise but has literally dropped off a cliff... I don't think he is even playing all that much for his club team this season.

    In the end I am left with: Pulisic, Weston, and Morris up front as guys that I feel comfortable with... Sargent has shown some promise but he needs to hit the back of the net more often. He is only 19... so he has plenty of time for improvement... someone to keep a close eye on... especially because of the glaring lack of #9s in our system.

    I am hoping that Tuesday gives me a better idea of who to trust on the D side...
     
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  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Depends what we mean by "could do better." He recently signed a 5-year contract that on average will pay him $1 million per year. So he's get job/career stability on a huge contract to play a sport he loves..............for his hometown team.

    As we'll recall, Jordan Morris had a contract offer from Werder Bremen on the table. He turned it down in favor of the MLS deal in the first place.

    There are some youngsters for whom a move to Europe is everything they've ever dreamed about. They take lesser salaries than offered by MLS in order to to Europe (Llanez and Mendez are recent examples of that). For others? Not so much. The allure of Europe isn't as strong.
     
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  21. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I too prefer guys who test themselves in Europe. Playing in an environment every day where the speed of play is higher, and the quality is better...will absolutely help your game, or maybe it'll prove that you just can't cut it at that level. It helps weed out contenders/pretenders. Morris has seemed to get better every year, and has worked on his left repeatedly, I respect him. It would be cool if he tried Europe, but it is what it is.
     
  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One of the benefits of MLS is that you are playing 34 matches against teams of similar ability, rather than a dozen games against top quality sides, and a goal scoring competition against the rest.

    Where I think MLS is lacking is in the coaching. Dominic Torrent has done a brilliant job of getting the best out of every player at NYC as Tata did at Atlanta.

    But if MLS improves as much over the next 5 years as it has improved in the last 5 then the only thing attracting players to Europe will be the money.
     
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  23. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will say that Morris has learned to use his left to the point where he is scoring with if and doesn’t seem to use the outside of his right foot in crazy spots anymore. I think you have to give credit to MLS for this development.
     
  24. WheezingUSASupport

    Dortmund
    United States
    Aug 28, 2017
    I think some people are overlooking club performance vs NT performance. Some players play at the same level, some don’t play as well, a few play better with their NT.

    Morris might fall into the 3rd group. He’s shown well for the NT after the injury in more than just the Cuba game.
     
  25. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most of the bottom feeder teams in the big 4 leagues would absolutely dominate MLS....
     
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