Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Iplayedforchelsea, Aug 25, 2006.
Ray Nagin is a moron.
I really thought that the New Orleanders would have decided to change leadership after the debacle that was the Hurricane Katrina response. Instead, the election was made all about race, and Nagin waltzes back in. New Orleans deserves whatever they get with this guy now.
Yep! What I don't understand? If City Engineers are to busy, they should have laid out scenerios about possible reconstruction. Maybe that is what they are doing. Waiting to see if the earth moves or study everglades. However, they could have hired a group decades ago to assess possibilities. They might have or might not have. Either way something good is to come of this. Some of those quotes are absolutely hillarious. If the rich white people would stop rebuilding their homes before they got paid. They might be just as slow. I know If I had a extra million. I would wait for no check. After claim is asesst. I would hit the pocket book and do it myself. Then reep the claims during process or latter in time. The power in preparedness indeed!
" But when Pitts points to flood-damaged cars in the street and a house washed partially into the street, the mayor shoots back. "That’s alright. You guys in New York can’t get a hole in the ground fixed and it’s five years later. So let’s be fair." "
Nagin has a point. He has to repair an entire city. We have to repair a 4sq block area. Big difference.
I can tell just by knowing that it's 60 minutes that this is a typical feel bad for the victims/ hate the leadership piece. And that's too bad because whoever thinks that the rebuilding of NO will take less than 10 years is kidding themselves.
I was one of the biggest slammers of Mayor Nagin in the beginning but the man needs time to do his job. He will get the benefit of the doubt from me from now on.
In 2003 my company came in 2nd or 3rd place (out of about 20 proposals) for the Army Corps of Engineers surveying and mappng contract for the New Orleans district.
I think we got lucky. Lots and lots of work. But LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of politics and people who aren't going to be happy no matter what happens there......
His point is a fair one, however his delivery/choice of words are horrible.
As a public official, he should be more cautious about making comments like that.
No he doesn't. The "hole in the ground" was cleaned and repaired as quickly as possible. Work started that very day and did not stop until it was completed. One year later and the surrounding area was back to life, there wasn't debris littered all over and cars that were destroyed still lingering about.
What's taking long is deciding what will actually go there. Construction could have started earlier had there been a consensus as to what to put there.
He has a very good point. While the workers did a very good job in cleaning the area of debris, everything else to do with post 9/11, thanks to our Albany leadership mostly, has been an unmitigated failure. The Lower Manhattan development corporation, designed ostensibly to short circuit normal public processes in order to make building faster and more efficient, is a total, ridiculous failure. Charles Gargano is a joke of a man making money off of the taxpayers.
And even in the clean up, our local (giuliani), state (PAtaki) and federal (Bush) leaders failed us in allowing workers to do the clean up in unsafe conditions, causing sickness and death to still more people after the tragedy. And their refusal to send in trained workers with the proper equipment to clean up residential buildings in the area, and their encouragement to people to move back in while a bunch of untrained illegal mexicans were sent in to do toxic clean up should go down as one of the most profoundly neglectful moments at a time when we here in NYC were desparate for competent leadership.
So Ray is right. And bostonsoccer, I thought you don't like politicians who are too cautious in their speech. Didn't you once say you want them to be candid and frank, and that's why you don't vote for either party a lot of the times?
No, the problem has been state government incompetence. Proposing buildings without appropriate security for the site cost a freaking year.
Very true. Skidmore Owings and Merrill has gone through 4 series of full construction documents for different tower options. Three have been released to the public and each one has come with more governement red tape and a far more boring design.
Everyone involved from the LMDC to the City to the Port Authority to the states (NY and NJ) to the federal government should be ashamed at the money and talent wasted on this exercise.
MAtt, we rarely agree, but on this we have total agreement. And the fact is, other politicians for so long (on both sides) were so afraid of saying anything negative about anything to do with 9/11, that there was no accountability.
What amazes me is that the only public opposition voice was Donald Trump who from the beginning wanted to rebild the towers exactly the same but add one more floor. While I don't like the idea at least it was an idea.
It saddens me that the orignal Leibskund/Childs design had been decimated the way it has. That thing would be half done today and in 3 years from now it would be complete and a fine cap to the Manhattan skyline.
Do you kind of see where part of my irrational hate of government comes from?
Oh please, I spent three years in government for an elected official, and I know how bad it can be. What is interesting about this though is that the whole point of creating the LMDC was to take government and its sometimes distorting and inefficient processes out of the rebuilding effort and to have this quasi, kind of mixed public/private corporation be able to rebuild without all the inefficiencies. Arguably, if rebuilding was bloomberg's job, or pataki's job, it would be done by now because at least there would be accountability.
I just think that other institutions, such as mega-corporations, that are presumed by most on the right to be the height of efficiency, are also often ineffective bureaucracies and that the efficiencies they do respond to in the modern world do not relate so much to providing goods and services but to short term shareholder concerns, which can be in conflict.
One man's irrationality is another man's logic. Or something like that.
In this, Reagan was right. Government is the PROBLEM.
Is there a god damned full moon or something?
The thing that many people, myself included, cannot put out of our minds is that Nagin made so MANY mistakes prior to, during and after the flooding, and has made so MANY inflamatory statements since then, that it is hard to overcome the feeling that all of this is just CYA.
Sounds like GWB and Iraq to me if you know what I'm saying.
That's why we need to focus on the present and the future. All that stuff is over.
Oh well, at least he didn't call it "Hymietown".
While Ray Nagin is not exactly a superstar here, he was extremely limited in what he could do. When it was happening, as between him, Governor Blanco and her one hour appearance on larry king live shaking her head saying tisk tisk while people were dying, and president bush's non response, he comes out on top, unfortunately.
He's kind of the clint dempsey at the WC of hurricane katrina, not so good, but damn, still better than the others.
Why is Giuliani singled out for fault on the local level? He left office four months after the attack. Is there a reason you're letting Bloomberg off the hook. He's been here the last 4 1/2 years.
I'll let to imbecile, racist remark about Mexicans pass.
Probably because the cleanup was over by March of 2002. Thats 4 months of Rudy and 2 months of the greatest mayor the world has ever known (or Mike Bloomberg for short)
What imbecile, racist remark was that?
The cleanup crews around ground zero (not in the pit itself, but at many of the surrounding buildings coated in nasty, likely toxic dust) - were quite likely to be poor, manual laborers from NYC's un/semi-documented immigrant class. And I really doubt they all had certified training in asbestos abatement and removal (or an equivalent)
A lot of illegal immigrants from mexico and central america were doing the clean up. I know because people I know asked them. If you prefer "undocumented", then I apologize for my insensitivity.
I was speaking about Giuliani and the clean up, most of it was occurring during his watch, and he and the feds were lying to us about the toxicity of the debris and the air during that time.
There was A LOT that Nagin could have done, he wasn't extremely limited. Others are very quick to put the blame squarley on Bush, but his blame is far less than Nagin and Blanco. They should have been dropped into the 9th ward when the levees broke.