Oh no…the Leopards ate my face thread

a Q Anon freak will be heading up the FBI everyone.

 

so it’s definitely going to be fascism

Cue the people saying we were overreacting pivoting to saying fascism won’t be bad

 

One good analysis I have seen is Gaza probably presented Harris with a great opportunity to position herself as an outsider and break with Biden in a way that would have broken through. It seems the reason she did not do this is because they feared the column inches, when in fact they needed the separation it would bring.

As I said way back, i think the focus on "losing muslim voters' and institutional positions was reactionary, and overlooked how much young people really did not like this stuff.

So it is not so much about whether many young people really cared about Gaza, but an opportunity for Harris to be her own woman, and law down a marker and break from the past.

As it was, Trump managed to run to both sides of her own this issue. Insane

And it's not as if Harris needed a solution to all this. She should have just run against Biden and Bibi on it.

MO

 

Sure - I get this thinking. But I think it is pretty clear she needed to reposition and the difficulty is getting any cut through.

PSA made one really good comment on all this during the last week, which is the very online debate about whether KH focussed too much on fascism and not enough on kitchen table.

But the problem is, when KH simply does a kitchen table speech - no one pays attention to it. Whereas Trump threatens 25% tariffs and invasion of Mexico, does a pointless phonecall where mexico disputed the readout, then claims credit next year for the 75% drop in crossings. I did not even know there had been a 75% drop this year!!

Somehow dems need to be better at this performative comms side.

 

What a time to be a life for a total sleazeball. Getting to the top being just yourself.

 

Sorry for not responding to this particular post earlier as I wanted to see the different responses. So using this one as a jumping on point.

First, I asked a very specific moral* question about why I should vote for one or the other. I am a bit surprised that nobody saw through my purpose and said "neither," though it seems BG might have gotten there with a longer post.

Second, I specifically chose a moral question as that is what we usually talk about in this part of BS. I suspect it is because that a majority of us are economically secure (job, income, housing, self-belief, etc) and do not really need to worry all that much, in general, about the cost of living (relative to US standards). I recall a discussion we had about the third COVID support bill and the general consensus was that, sure it would cause inflation, but that would be better than having people evicted from their homes (which would have many knock-on effects). That suggests that, in general, we do not have issues with income/wealth/cost of living, which allows us to focus on moral questions more.

Third, one consistent thing going back to ALL presidential elections since 2000 (per Pew), the economy was the most important issue for voters (though just slightly above terrorism in 2004).

I bring up this third point as very notable in that not just in this thread, but across many threads, there are posts mocking Trump voters for voters (and specifically Latinos) for voting for the person they thought would do better with the economy. Mock them all you want, but we lost. WE LOST! Because Harris focused more on the moral question(s) rather than the economic question(s). Yes, she did some, but history has told us "It's the economy, stupid." Every. single. time.

Also, one of the things that is being done in these threads is constantly call Trump voters (specifically Latinos) "dumb." How does that help us win back the White House or HofR or Senate, or any of the seats we lost in state races? I'm sure that those of you who post on other social media platforms are posting or liking similar type comments. By doing so, think of how you would respond to being called "dumb" for voting for Harris. Personally, I would say that none of you have really experienced that, like I get every so often for voting for Nader in 2000 (in Florida). Time got me to realize how bad my error was, but if you had called me "dumb" a year or two after the election, I would have bucked, and might have retained my vote for 3rd party at least in 2004.

So, beyond that, also consider the question I asked. Yes, I asked a moral question, but I asked it as a choice between two. As was pointed out, Trump will be worse in terms of violence. But it doesn't mean that Harris will be non-violent. But I chose Harris because of the reasons most of you have presented. But it is an ends-justify-the-means vote, in the Harris will be better, not perfect. So think about all those Latino voters who chose Trump because they think he will be better for their top reason - the economy (many tie Trump's immigration plan to their own economic security). Will the leopards eat some of their faces? Sure. But that is because they view the economy as more important than a risk of deportation.

So, now I ask, how do we win?

I know this post is better suited to Knave's thread about what to do now, but I'm posting here because of the conversation being had here.

* - By "moral questions" I am thinking about things like civil rights, personal safety v. opposing threats (as opposed to unhoused safety, as an example), and things like seeing health care as a right.