If a player straddles the center line (half a body on one side of the pitch the other in the opposing half) waiting for through balls assumming no 2nd last defender. When the ball is kicked by a teammate and the straddling player gives chase I declare him offside. AS a goodly portion of his torso is inside the opposition half as is one entire leg. Is this wrong? I had a fairly senior official tell me as long as a foot touches the centre line you can lean into the opponents half? Is this truth or fiction?
That's a GREAT question, Griz. When judging the location of an attacker vs. a defender, I have always judged as near as possible by the center of the torsos. But when I've been standing on the center line where the defense is pushed up, I've always looked at the feet. ONE foot over the line and he's offside. Waiting to hear what's "proper".
According to Law 11: "a player is not in an offside position if: he is in his own half of the field of play or..." If a player is straddling the line, he is in his own field of play and the other field of play. I would rule he is onside. Besides when in doubt, don't call offside. Other opinions?
Could we look at another law to determine the "soccer philosophy" of how to judge when something has crossed a line? If so, then there is an obvious parallel here with how one would judge a ball to be out of play. To be out of bounds (or in the goal) the whole ball must cross the whole line. With no clear instruction from Law 11 I'm inclined to take a similar approach and say that the "whole" man needs to be across the "line" in order to call him offside. And regardless I would repeat IA's mantra that one should let it go if in doubt.
The torso is the key. If the players torso is even with the halfway line he is on side. Over the line he is in an offside position.
USSF Advice 11.14 gives the criteria that any part (torso, feet, toes) over the half-way line is offside. But other folks (besides IASocFan) give the criteria that any foot on the half-way line or in own half is onside. I use the first criteria, but think that the second criteria is more consistent with the wording in LOTG.
Unfortunately USSF contradicts themselves on this (and other points) in their "Myths of the Game" video, which is being used all over the country at local referee chapters as well as at clinics for coaches and even parents. In the video, they focus upon the torso, not the feet.
As a practical matter, when you as AR make that mental snapshot of offside position at the moment the ball is played by a teammate, judging the torso or jersey over the line, or beyond the second last defender, allows for greater consistency and, in my opinion, accuracy. You are not trying to spot minutia, such as was the foot over, because often when attackers and players are lined up, it can be hard to distinguish who belongs to which foot, but the torso, or jersey is much more conclusive and allows you to be more consistent.
bit hazy still Yes I noticed that and sent this questin into Jim Allen's USSF official sports website. I too take the when in doubt theory keep the flag down as a practical application if the player is in the process of steping over when the ball is released. But, for a player to deliberately go and stand there waiting a defender must be confident to step up and know the AR will call it offside. Or understand that he must stay back with him. IF referees are unclear as to that status we can surely expect the players to be doubly so. THe issue arose in a tournament in that one AR gave the tactic an ok going one way but the other AR called offside after the half on a clean breakaway. I always considered the midline as a five inch invisable wall stay inside it or in your own half you were ok but if your torso broke the plane it was offside. IF we use the criteria the line is part of the field it encompasses then the foot on the line in the same sense of the ball, could hold that we are still inside our own half and thus not offside. I prefer my wall idea but open to more debate.
I'm pretty conservative myself and the dance at the midfield stripe is fairly rare. Hard to make any serious argument either way that inches really make or break any advantage in an offside situation, particularly when it's 50 yards or more from the goal. Grizz makes a good point that if the situation is arising in a particular game, inconsistency between the 2 AR's would be a problem. Hopefully they would at least get their heads together at halftime to resolve it.
But you wouldn't discover the discrepancy until the first time it's called in the second half. Maybe this needs to be added to the pregame discussion to make sure everyone's on the same page -- particularly at the higher level games where you're more likely to see this happen.
Sorry, I misread Griz's comment - I thought he was saying that both teams were doing it in the first half, but only one AR was calling it offside.
Having just re-read ATR 11.14 they say no such thing. In fact in 11.14 #4 they say that the torso is what we usually judge offside by.
JKC, you need to read the entire section of the current (2001) version of the ATR (there is no 11.14.4), not just part of one section (11.14.3), to see the inconsistency with the video that we were referencing. My guess is that most of us take exception to this portion of the guidance and do in fact focus on the torso in all cases. Nonetheless, the inconsistency is there.
From a player's perspective, it has got to be pretty difficult to straddle the line, always keeping that torso behind the line and one foot in, without losing sight of the game and just staring at the midfield stripe. I can't see this happening that often in matches, but certainly, the torso rule (explanation such as jersey/short colors, etc...) seems to be the applicable rule.
My mistake, I meant 11.14 #3 which clearly states "we usually judge offside based on the torso". The rest of 11.14 deals with probables and possibles but absolutely no inconsistency. We look at the rest of the body and judge by the torso in most cases. The ATR is not suggesting we ignore the torso and look at the feet
Quote from ATR: highlights position(s) and involvement See #2 11.14 WHEN IS A PLAYER IN AN OFFSIDE POSITION AT THE HALFWAY LINE? Keeping in mind the requirement for active involvement in play, here are some guidelines for judging offside position at the halfway line: 1. (a) If the player's toes are on the halfway line, but not over the line, there would be no offside. (b) If the player's feet are on the halfway line, with the toes over the line (heels on his own side), there could be offside (if there is active involvement). 2. If the player has one foot over the line and one foot completely on his own side, there could be offside (if there is active involvement). 3. If the player has both feet on his own side of the line, but his head or hands extend over the line, there would be no offside. (It would not be justifiable to count the head or hands, as we usually judge offside based on the torso. An instance of a player with both feet completely on his own side and his body over and beyond the line and still ready to take an active part in play would be improbable at best.)
As a coach and a player I like to visit the Ref boards because I am continually dumbfounded by what refs can be thinking. Okay, your 70 yards from the goal, one foot in your own half, and somebody is CONSIDERING calling you offside? I think one ref suggested a YELLOW for such behavior! Once again fellas; These are tactics. You are a fast forward, not particularly skillful but blazing fast and the opposing defense is dense enough to push all their defenders up past half, then that attacker should be in EXACTLY that position. We call it a counter attack. One more time: Even is on. "When in doubt..."and there seems to be some doubt here.
Relax dude, we know how to make the call just as well as you know how to execute the tactic. This was a very limited discussion about what some of us perceive to be a slight inconsistency between two different pieces of instructional advice published by USSF. We get into this minutia when we're bored stiff because the weather is keeping us off the pitch.