I would suggest anyone doing an actual analysis should use the official statistics by the organization that determines them. Which would be MLS. If MLS counts "second assists" then that is the official stat.
Digging into it… On one hand, it doesn’t matter as long as you stay ‘apples to apples’. Here’s the MLS 2022 Assist list So all of that is ‘with the same definition’, that is unconfirmed to include ‘assist of the assist’, but appears that way. OPTA defines Assist this way… Chasing the rabbit down the whole right now to find who the MLS is currently using, in 2020 they used Stats Perform, but OPTA appears to be the source for a lot of them and the they add their analytics/definitions to interpret it. FBRef is straight OPTA no computation/conversion and it shows So comparing Shaqiri to Acosta is either 11/19 or 7/12. Statsbomb is an interesting example of the evolution of ‘money all’…in particular xG https://statsbomb.com/what-we-do/soccer-data/ In the end it’s making sure any analytics/debate is ‘apples to apples’, not which definition…especially since it changes year by year. Multiple clubs ‘roll their own’
The MLS “second assist” appears to be very strict. As in, if the primary assist player takes more than a touch or two there is no secondary assist. It’s reserved for through balls and the like. These things are sometimes logged in other stats like through balls, key passes, line breaking passes, etc. MLS appears to not yet track at the granularity of the modern sport. Using an OPTA strict assist stat when comparing different players means you need to compare players in the exact position and system to make an apples to apples comparison. A “midfield” is pretty big. A Modric won’t have a lot of OPTA assists but would have an over abundance of MLS assists. A Vela who sits higher up and is closer to the box will be more directly involved than Modric and have more OPTA assists but that doesn’t mean he’s a better playmaker. This is why an individual stat is largely useless. Italian announcers often talk about players with 4-5 assists in a game. It stuck out to me once when it was a 0-0 game. I realized Italians were grading a player on skills much deeper than goals and it was kinda eye opening. This was well before the “key pass” made it into the (shitty) EPL lexicon. Who else in MLS is a slightly deeper creator like Shaqiri? I’ve said it before in other ways but he’s almost a box to box midfielder but without any defensive responsibility. Modric, Pirlo and Pogba play something similar. Weston McKinney is a bit like this too, but he’s more defensive than the others.
I was using a browser that doesn’t track history so I can’t get the exact links for you but after a bunch of failed searches I ended up using Google with a phrase something like: How does MLS count assists “2022” There were some Reddit links but also ultimately an MLS page that mentioned it briefly. I’m guessing they count touches before the ball goes in. If I pass to you and you touch it twice and pass, then it goes in on a one touch, that’s three touches and a goal. Suitable for a secondary assist. If the scorer adds a couple touches before putting it away, it would not get a secondary assist. This specificity is not laid out anywhere but it’s my best guess as to how the sausage is made. It would also allow for AI to watch games and pretty accurately count the secondary assist without human intervention.
MLS has changed ‘stat partners ever couple years, but it sounds like you are describing the OPTA definition.
After all this nonsense in this thread, I came away with the exact same mentality I had before this thread. Shaqiri is the best/one of our best players, but should be producing a bit better. He should be our 2nd or 3rd DP and I don't care how much he's paid. That Joe Mansueto's business.
I agree with much of what you say. However, I am not convinced that Joe has given Fire a blank check. Therefore, resources (money + DP slot) used on one player are not available for use elsewhere and it does matter. If Shaqiri added value as a mammoth ticket or merchandise seller or if he greatly improved the locker room by his presence, that would matter. I could be wrong but I see little evidence of either.
Same. But the majority of the back and forth has been because there is not agreement on this. I think it was a Jiggly post that opened my mind on this...I too started the season thinking he is and should be our #1DP, but he has looked more like a Robin than a Batman. We would be in an much better place if he is expected to be our 2nd DP and the open slot is filled with a take the reins top5 player in the league player. Papa Joe has the resources to make it so, and Heitz has the tools needed to make it so.
But Jiggly was wrong, too. I mean, look at Toronto. They got TWO “#1 DPs” and ended up behind us in the standings. Shaqiri needs help, that’s all. No one player can do it all and two players in Toronto didn’t, either. They’re getting the help of a Sean Johnson, though. Not sure what help is coming for us.
This is a perfect example of what has driven our sparring…or at least my argumentative responses. ”you are wrong” You are not omniscient, nor have “facts” that make me (and Jiggly) “wrong”. These are all opinions…my opinion is different than yours, it’s not “wrong”. I’m at the ‘agree to disagree’ point on Shaqiri, which doesn’t mean stop sharing my opinion…it means I’ll stop countering your righteous judgements if you will just stop coming over the top like that. I accept your point about that 1player can’t do it all, and it’s a rare player that has a dominant impact. I do not accept Shaqiri played at a #1DP level last season, nor that the reason was ‘the rest of the roster’s fault’. Regarding needing help, of course. We have a second DP tag and need the use of it to matter. I’m now suggesting what Jiggly and GHjelm did…bring in Batman so Shaq can just be an amazing Robin.
********, I can’t wait for our secondary jerseys to be revealed, just to give us all something different to argue about. FFS.
It’s not even that I know, it’s that Jiggly knows. At the end of 2021 we needed 12 players, mostly of starting caliber, and a new coach. So the consensus here was very clearly that 2022 was yet another rebuilding year(TM). If someone wants to complain in 2021 that 2022 is yet another rebuilding year and it takes a team at least a year to gel, then in 2023 blame one player when that season is somehow unsuccessful, then yes, they were either wrong in 2021 or now in 2023. The opinions are conflicting. I for the life of me can’t figure how people forget the fact that 2022 was very clearly a rebuilding year. Cognitive dissonance? I don’t get it.
It's not a trend. While we heard plenty about Hauptman's cheapness I have yet to hear any leak suggesting we didn't go after someone because of financial concerns. Joe has spent on everything, why would he cheap out when it comes to the product on the field?
False equivalence, 2022 was absolutely a rebuild year for us, but expansion club Austin was 2nd in the West with 65goals...which could be argued was largely due to their #1DP/CAM
What makes you say that...from what I found he played the same role in the same formation (10 in a 4-2-3-1).
Josh Wolff is all about attacking soccer, our system is defense first. Same formation but philosophically on the other side of the globe in terms of what the end goal is.
This comment was in response to a statement that the Shaqiri acquisition proved that management has a blank check to spend unlimited amounts on players. I still do not believe it has been proven beyond doubt that excessive prices have been sanctioned indefinitely. I do believe that Joe has shown he is willing to spend substantial money to improve the team. I continue to think he expects on-field results consistent with the funds spent on players.