Official United - Revolution POST Game Thread [R]

I'm glad I don't make my living selling DC United tickets. After three years of not rising to the challenge, they're going to have a tough time coming up with a slogan. The back of this year's shirt says "believe." For renewing season ticket holders, I think next year's shirts should say "sucker" on the back. Man is it sad that DC has gone more than a year without winning a road game. Three seasons and no playoffs in a league where almost every team makes it? At least the Revs are making a run for escaping MLS's permanent underclass.

 

Nice turnout

I actually went to Summers tonight to see the match, for the first time since season one. I was surprised with amount of people that were there and how into the game people were...it was almost like being there. It's too bad the result wasn't what we would have liked, but I had a good time.

In reference to a new playmaker if Marco goes, I'd consider Olsen. He seems to play better a little father back, making crosses, than playing as a forward. He also seems more mature, and to have a better grasp of the game.

As a sidenote...my husband and I stopped on our way home at the 7-11 in Tysons to find Chino buying Smirnoff Ices. I guess he's drowning his sorrows like the rest of us.

Cindy

 

Well, Jesus H. Christ on a stick...nice way for the team to grab their ankles. At least they had the decency to lose 3-0, and not 1-0 or 2-1 or some other score that would've indicated we were actually competitive at some point.

What a joke our team must be to the rest of the league. Champs to chumps is an understatement. This team needs to be blown the eff up and rebuilt in the offseason. Heads need to roll, starting with guys who make the most and haven't produced.

Oh, and Benny, before you try and saunter off to England, maybe you could actually, umm, play a whole season for the team that's been providing a nice paycheck while you've been injured and taking up roster and cap space for the last 18 months. Just an idea and all.

 

PA--THE--TIC!!! And thats being kind.

Well, if there was any doubt about droping Moreno and Etcheverry, I think that question has been answered tonight. Both players were forgetable and just did not have any real impact on the game. The sad fact is this has been going on for 3 years now. The league has just passed them by.

In addition, when you see the impact of Nelsen's injury and departure early in the game on the backline you have to reconsider Pope's value. Remember Pope has missed so many games through injury or Nats duty that he has not been an integral part of the defense.

I have to also ask what on earth are we doing keeping Richie Williams around. The black hole of offense struck time after time in the New England game effectively snuffing out DC scoring chances with poor passes.

Folks it is time to clean house.

However, I would not blame Hudson. Its important to recognize that his hands are tied with so much of his salary cap going to the likes of Moreno, Etcheverry and Pope along with high priced, out for year, players like Amann and Olsen (well almost the whole year).

I would say that Hudson bares some responsibility with the worthless trades for Williams and Villeagas as well as bringing in Zambrano.

Anyway if you missed the game itself you did not miss much except to confirm evan at "full or close to full strength", United currently is not a good side.

Its going to be an interesting off season.......

 

It was definitely a great time.

Thanks to Red&Black for turning an otherwise crappy night into a great one!

 

Did chico make it out to Summers tonight? More importantly did my amigo get home after that heart-stomping display?
It was do or die for United and we died. Here's to two more kegs and beating the Metros. That's about all we have left. The Barra is sad tonight.

 

“We had the better of play for much of the game tonight, but it was clear to me that New England simply wanted the go-ahead goal more,” said United Head Coach Ray Hudson. “Their sheer determination was the difference.” (dcunited.com)

From those who saw the game, is Ray spot on or blowing smoke?

 

Chico was there. I left before he did though...

 

I was there too. Lots of people, more than I expected. Fun time.

As for the game, most of our offense came from McKinley's long balls switching fields.

Why do we have 4 guys well spaced (and well marked) at the top of the penalty area just standing around waiting for someone else to pass them the ball? Ummm, does Ray teach these guys how to make diagonal runs? Seriously. This element of offense has been missing every game this season.

Kudos to the few people who did shoot, Reyes, Villegas, and Convey. Now if only our "forwards" would start shooting.

Again, our defense shut down the Revs except for a couple of dangerous opportunities. Then, when we were behind later in the game we threw caution to the wind and put Pope, Reyes and McKinley forward, and the Revs scored a couple. Unfortunate, but at least we tried to win.

Despite the 3 goals our defense played well. But, we need Nelsen to organize it.

For next season, I'd vote we keep Reyes, Pope, Prideaux, Convey, Olsen, Eliseo, Nelsen, Santino and Mapp (p-40). Everyone else is negotiable.

We have no style as a team, and that's Hudson's fault. I give him exactly 1 more year to mold this team with the money players of his own choosing. After that, we look elsewhere.

United won several championships with a style of a fast poacher augmented by a fast and creative forward both of whom were supported by a premier passer and exceptional flank play. An organized and gritty defense kept us from being blown out.

KC won with a conservative defensive shell that protected the back line who remained compact and organized. Very few mistakes, good possession and enough offense to win.

Chicago won with a hunting midfield and a philosophy to deny the center of their defensive third and win balls in the middle third of the field.

Currently, United is a mish-mash of conflicting styles. The players are not on the same page, and our game-plans seem to lack quite a bit. The only things I can say positive are that the defense is as good as there is in the league, until they are called forward during the run of play to compensate for our lack of offense. As for Hudson, he should get much credit for building and operating this defense, as well as for identifying the talent. His substitutions are usually very good, and he is a good motivator. Now, he needs someone like Rongen who can 1) coach good offensive tactics and 2) teach younger players to perform and develop quickly. If Onalfo goes--something I've picked up on since day 1, and as appears to be the case now publicly--his replacement needs to be someone with those two skill sets.

Our finishing is indescribably bad. This is a team that was very good offensively last season under Rongen. We need more than just an infusion of talented players, we need a style and tactics from the coaching staff. When you point a finger at the players Ray, there are 4 fingers pointing back at you.

-Tron

 

This has been the M.O. for the better part of 3 seasons with this team.. We seemingly control the ball more but the opposition merely sits back and counterattacks to great applomb..

This is exactly what happened tonight and what has been happening basically through the teams 7 year existence.. The only difference being in the first 4 seasons, we were able to go ahead in most games and simply outscore teams.. This is not the case anymore..

The Revs announcers brought up a shocking statistic during the match tonight.. They said United is 3-0 when leading at the half this season.. That's right folks, out of 25 matches, we have led at the half 3 times..

 

Ok, I hit this thread without reading it so that I could give my first thoughts on tonight.

We can't score in a whore house.

That said....there were a bunch of DC Fanatics at Summers tonight, and even in a loss I had a good time. Chico, k, Rich(sp),Red&Black..........Too many to mention.

Let me say that I was can't belive that I saw Chino and Ali at the bar. We need all the fire power we can muster!!

That said, Ali Curtis sat with us and he is the most down to earth man you can ever meet. This guy gave us an inside to what is really happening with United and to tell you the truth.......We have nothing but roses to look forward to if this guy has anything to do with it.

We suck now...After My Man Ray handles business, things will come our way.

 

Rubbish. The Revs were the better team. Hell, Twellman alone was the better team.

And damn it -RAY - DO YOU NOW UNDERSTAND THAT TWELLMAN IS A FREAKING GOOD PLAYER! HE'S BETTER THAN RIGHT NEAR ANY OF THE HALF-WIT, HALF-TRAINED, HALF-ALIVE WRETCHES THAT YOU'VE BEEN LINING UP FOR SLAUGHTER LATELY!

Reyes should've been marking the little bastard.

...

Sorry for yelling.

...

Actually, no I'm not.

 

To me neither team looked dominant, but we probably had the majority of possession and rarely looked dangerous. It is so frustrating to watch Convey get the ball, play it to a teammate in the middle, make the correct run only to have the return pass never come. In fact, they very often play it back to the fullbacks. WTF!?!?!?

And when we get into the penalty box almost everyone is scared to shoot. We have a team of 8 guys who think they're setup men. Etch plays creative midfielder, Moreno plays that role too ... why I don't know. Zambrano plays that role too. Olsen plays like he wishes he were playing winger and doesn't remember how to be a forward. Convey plays like a winger ... but of course he is, so that's acceptable. Villegas plays as if the ball contains an explosive and he must dribble it to the penalty area without letting anyone else touch it, and there he must dump it into the box to whomever (on either team) happens to be there.

This just isn't acceptable. Play the game and position the coach gives you, or look for another job. I hope they all finished college, because their soccer abilities are not shining through.

-Tron

 

I would and I do. Must win game. A team that has trouble scoring. Ray's solution is to put 6 defenders on the f-ing field. What a joke. To make it worse the only foward is a washed up player who admitted to Ray that he is having trouble shooting and is afraid that he will hurt himself. Not to mention one who has cost us 6 points this season (KC, KC, SJ).

Hey Ray we get it already we are not your precious Miami but that does not mean that you field a lineup and a strategy that can not win. What NY, the zero road wins this season, the 500+ scoring drought was not a hint that we need more than one foward. Ray go back to Miami I for one no longer want you in D.C.

 

I know you probably didn't mean to but how could you leave Nelsen and Quaranta off of that list?

This would be my core group of players to build around for next season (anticipating of course a serious bloodletting at seasons end):


Rimando - single handidly kept us in matches this season


McGinty - no reason not to keep him.. He has to be pretty cheap and has done well in limited time in a United kit..


Pope - when healthy, a great defender in this league with the ability to score the occasional goal

Nelsen - our defensive MVP field player..

Prideaux - a solid man marker and can play anywhere on the back line..

Reyes - best aquisition for United since the Lassiter/Wegerle trade.. Fastest player in MLS..

Convey - started slow but has come on lately (and scored a few goals).. Will only be 20 next season..

Olsen - seems to have recovered nicely from his two year injury.. When healthy is one of the best all-around midfielders in MLS

Quintanilla - a very skillfull if a bit slow player that for me would fit in very nicely as the attacking midfielder for Etcheverry.. Will be only 20 next season.. Very good first touch and good vision..

Mapp - P-40 status will protect him.. Don't really know if Hudson has any use for him quite frankly but is too young to discard.. Will be 17/18 next season

Quaranta - Despite being only 17, he plays beyond his years with a good feel for the game.. Big, strong and has good instincts.. Needs to stay healthy though.. Will only be 18 next season..


That is my core group of players that should basically be untouchable unless a trade is mentioned that will blow us away..


Everyone else IMHO is subject to a salary decrease or outright release

 

Damn Knave, can you be a little more specific???

 

You're right, thanks for reminding me, I'm still more than a little miffed at the game. I edited my post to reflect the changes you pointed out. Thanks.

-Tron

 

I have this to add as well.

Nick is keeper of the year no matter what ANYONE has to say. The guy has been the MVP of our team, no doubt. Hell (the first sware word I've used on bs) The guy has gave it 110% EVERY MATCH!!!

As far as our defence......admirable.

Our mid's and forwards, LOT"s of room for improvement, to say the least.

We have alot of cap room to fill, and if what we have now can't perform, it's time to make some changes, nuff said.

 

“We had the better of play for much of the game tonight, but it was clear to me that New England simply wanted the go-ahead goal more,” said United Head Coach Ray Hudson. “Their sheer determination was the difference.”

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Well when you have no sense of tatics I guess that is all you can say. What a load of bull...what game was he watching. Mindless passing and players in cross position with no one over 5 foot in the box is not determination .

 

More specific you ask … sure.

That statement by Hudson defies belief. Why? We very rarely had the better of the play. Sure we had lots of possession but we rarely threatened. And when we did it was always bungled on the last touch. The Revolution’s possession may have been more measured but they were always more dangerous. They attacked quickly, sometimes finding Reyes up field (leaving a giant hole in our defense, a defense already stressed by the loss of Nelsen). In the end because the Revolution were more efficient in the attack they had less possession but significantly more scoring chances. When DC United did have possession it wasn’t just mindless passing that doomed us – it was lazy passing. We must have turned over the ball half a dozen times with soft and errant passes. The one by Zambrano, of course, resulted in a Revolution goal. What else? Williams! Williams should not be in the attack. He does not have enough skill to place the ball into the run of attacking player. Not that there were very many of those attacking runs. Why is it that the only person running in the offensive third of the field is the guy with the ball? Everyone else is just standing around – apparently in awe that we actually have the ball and are mounting an attack. I know at these times I usually put my beer down, sit still and pay close attention because I don’t want to miss any of the action. But I expect something rather different from the guys actually playing.

In the end – Yes – the Revs wanted that first goal much more than DC United. And they played better accordingly. DC United played with a smidgen of heart during the first half – just in case they got lucky, I suppose - but after the first goal it was all over. And everyone on the team played like they knew it.

 

It still baffles me that we can beat the current MLS champs that are, no doubt, the best team in the league this season, and then fall to a team that is struggling to make play-offs. Consistency is not in our vocabulary.

I might as well get this over with...bon voyage to half of DC United. It was nice knowing ya!

 

On that specific play, I think the fault lies almost exclusively with Villegas. He barely moved to receive the ball, even when he saw the Rev player stepping to it. The announcers were killing Zambrano over the pass, but I think it was a lazy Villegas more than anything.
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Overall, absolutely no continuity on offense. The Midfield totally BLOWS, and the forwards are worse. Unless he is playing Duke or St. John's, Olsen isn't a efffective forward. Even at ~70% of his capabilities, I would argue he is the best midfielder on the team right now - play him there dammit. MAE/ABMOD are both 70th min subs at best on a competitive team in this league. I know most everyone loves Convey, but I have not seen his game improve more than marginally in the past 2 seasons or more. He does not bring anything more to the table today, than he did late his rookie season. He is in the bottom fourth in the league as a wing midfielder IMO - will he improve? not sure, given Hudson's veteran slant. I just don't see the hunger in his play - time for a scenery change - if near value can be had - trade him. The team needs a helluva an overall, and many of the "sacred cows" need to leave, for the team to return to competitiveness.

 

I was in the booth next to you, Dave, with Mrs. Winoman and Winoson the Younger. A great atmosphere at Summers, but I was wondering the same thing: What are Chino & Ali doing here, when we need all the Offense we can muster?

I'm not so sure about Ray, anymore. Kick him upstairs (or downstairs, as the case may be) to marketing or public relations and get a real coach.

Winoman