I'm saying, look at the 2014 class. There's a lot of guys on that list who had bigger names than TT who TT has outperformed. He's accomplished a lot. Christian Dean, Steve Birnbaum, Patrick Mullins, Damion Lowe, Andrew Lewis. Marlon Hairston - only 400 minutes/season the last 2 years. Eric Miller - 400 minutes/season the last 3 seasons. Nick Hagglund was on the bench this year until October. Marky Delgado is still holding down a starting spot. Justen Glad and Tesho Akindele are contributing role players this year.
Using class and year aren't a good argument to make for a players development and overall success. You have to look at the situation for every team, player and roster differently. If Thompson played for the Galaxy in 2014, he would have been cut by 2016, he'd never see the field for TFC, Seattle and probably Orlando and NYCFC. Birnbaum has also played in some important games for the US National Team, and he was injured a lot this season. He's been a consistent starter for DC United and he's played more then Tommy Thompson in the overall career numbers, in fact he scores more then Thompson as a center back, the shots on goal are exactly the same at 33, Thompson has more red cards then Birnbaum as well. Mullins and Thompson have played the same amount of games, but his stats are better. But making the stat argument in soccer is also moot. Hagglund has also played more and has been a starter in the league and has a MLS cup ring to prove for it. Glad will probably leave RSL and start for another MLS team next season because Juarez is a complete idiot according to some RSL Fans I'm friends with. So to say he's out performed the entire class is irrelevant. We could debate about the 2008 class with Salinas, Tony Beltran, Sean Franklin, Roger Espinoza, Steven Lenhart, Geoff Cameron. Did he out perform all these guys because most of that class is coming to an end of their careers? Thompson isn't a great player, he's not a shit player, he's an average player who inconsistently plays good, and been lucky he's not an on the book salary player other wise he probably would have been cut in the Kinnear/Starhe era. I can't wait for people to quit shagging his ball sack on this forum, and castrating the majority of everyone else. At least keep it consistent and castrate everyone. Thompson isn't golden balls.
I think many forget the draft is pretty irrelevant. It's just a gateway to get the college guys in MLS and very few ever make it. Even the round and pick the guy comes in at doesn't matter. Not many top 3 guys ever make it.
It's hard not to look at TT in his 1st game as a 17/18-year old, just playing free and easy, and now seeing him play as a generally conservative outside back and wonder what the heck happened. I'm hesitant to blame the team too much because I think if you're good enough - if you're a transcendent talent, you'll shine through anyway. And he hasn't shown that he's at that level. But I think if he'd been allowed to continue to play and take chances like he did under Watson that 1st year things might have been different. Some of the stuff he did back then worked, some of it didn't. But you'd have to think if he kept trying it, editing out the stuff that doesn't work, refining the stuff that does. the success rate would go up over time. I think Kinnear really put a damper on TT's creative play, and may have been most responsible for possibly limiting his potential. Kinnear was real risk averse and I remember a few times when TT did something that resulted in a goal for the other team, directly or indirectly, he'd sit him for like a dozen games in a row after that. I think that contributed to TT becoming a much more conservative player. When Leitch came in, he was very open about having the players take chances, including, or especially TT. Leitch had seen TT play in some academy games, and was very high on him. He was probably anxious to take the leash off of him, after watching him throttled by Kinnear, and TT thrived in that environment in the latter half of 2017. I saw 2018 then as a chance for TT to kind of get a foothold and reclaim some of his potential. But Stahre came in and just didn't rate him at all. He had only 6 starts that year. Enter Almeyda, who sees the more conservative side of TT - he plays pretty good defense, he's conservative with the ball, but makes some good attacking plays occasionally in the final 3rd. Outside back!!! And so that's where we are now. I think possibly the last act - and I've been saying it for years, may be that TT is acquired by Sac and gets a chance to start consistently in midfield. I think then we might get a better read on whether the team hampered his development. If he turns out to be a real good player for them in that role (as he was showing in latter 2017), then you can probably say with more certainty that the Quakes squandered him a bit.
Correct. The college draft has become less and less relevant as MLS has matured. There is a reason why MLS and their teams are looking to expand their development internally (I.e. expect internal development will be the main intake mechanism along with overseas or existing MLS players).
When I listen to player podcasts, I am amazed how they all refer to and compare with other players by the class year. It’s almost like listening to people talk about wine
It is useful b/c the league is not static. MLS has improve by leaps and bounds over the last 7 years. It's a lot harder to hold down a starting spot on a playoff team in 2020 than it was in 2014. There was a lot less money on the rosters back then.
Thompson is a decent player, at this point he is pretty much who he is. And that is a serviceable player at the MLS level. He'll probably never be enough above average to raise eyebrows, but he can do a few different jobs despite his limitations (lack of speed stamina and athleticism, USL level when the goal is in his sights). No change of coach or scenery (whether it's Sacramento or "Europe" ) is going to change his trajectory all that much at this point. He was the Quakes first homegrown (one of the last teams to have one) so there were additional expectations on him, that plus the fleeting moments of brilliance on the ball, but "serviceable MLS player" is actually not that bad! Plenty of homegrowns end up in the lower leagues or out of professional soccer entirely. I don't think even the biggest TT haters would argue he shouldn't be in MLS at all. The thing is, the Quakes should be churning out half a dozen serviceable MLS players, teams like FC Dallas and NYRB don't have 100 page threads on guys like Thompson... you think their fans spent this much time thinking about Victor Ulloa or Alex Muyl? In any case middling homegrowns are useful to have, the fill out the roster with usable pieces, don't hit the salary cap, and presumably come through the team's "system" so they're better fits than some random USLer or draft pick. Also they can be moved on within the league for compensation, as those other two guys were. If Sacramento offered fair value for Thompson when they enter MLS, that would probably be the best move for all parties. I don't think it will happen, because Jesse is incapable of making moves within MLS. And the fact that Nick Lima wasn't moved back when he was playing for the national team but not starting for the Quakes suggests that they probably overvalue their own pieces or are scared to make a trade that might backfire and make them look bad.
I agree, I'm no TT hater but I hate how people on this forum think he's some game changing wonderkid who's dynamic and created plays. He doesn't he's what you said an average mls player who isn't a starter, but a guy who can plug a hole and come off the bench. There shouldn't be 100 page posts about Thompson but there is and he can do no wrong in the eyes of people which is a big problem. We should have had 8 or 9 homegrowns that we sell, trade or can afford to lose because we have more in the pipeline. Arguibly Muyl has turned out better then Thompson. Marcinkowski has a lot to grow in and he's not ready for the prime time either. As the season progressed his mistakes became more glaring. The fact hardly anyone was up his ass the past few games for his piss ass distribution and positioning and the fact he lost the ball 4 ********ing times almost with his feet and did twice against SKC we are lucky we didn't give up 6 goals. Had that been Vega or anyone else there would be 100 pages about why he sucks.
A couple of nits: I must assume there will be an expansion draft, and I can't believe we'd protect TT Alashe - Orduros trade. Not incapable, merely disinclined.
Yes incapable was hyperbole, but how many times has Jesse made a player-for-player trade within MLS? The only one I can think of is Quincy Amarikwa for Dominic Oduro... and even that was more of a player dump, or swapping of unwanted pieces. The rest are all dumps (not even going to bother checking to make sure these are correct because who cares): Alashe, Bingham, Tarbell, Godoy, etc.
Yeah and Godoy, Alashe and Tarbell have found career resurrection with better teams, Godoy's not the yellow card waiting to happen with Nashville, he's key piece in the center with Dax. I bet Thompson goes to Sacramento, whether early, to prepare for MLS transition or taken in the draft.
Homegrowns age 25 and under are protected. TT is 25 and still an HG. Sac xpansion draft won't be for another 2 years I guess.
Yes (I would imagine). He seemed to really enjoy playing there. I think it will happen, possibly even 2022, a year before they go to MLS.
That's what I think will happen. A lot of guys go a year before to start building the program up. I don't think they will promote a lot of the USL guys, Cincinnati learned that the hard way.
His wages are extremely low for what type of a player he is. Yes, as many have said, he is a decent two-way player that is versatile enough to give you spot-starter minutes or come off the bench and play various positions...what more can you ask for what you are paying him? He should definitively be kept as roster depth.
Yeah, and technically, as an HG, I think he still counts as $0 against the cap. If he leaves, I think it could be more at TT's request. Let's say his playing time with the Quakes diminishes next season, and it certainly could. I don't think Jesse has particularly rated him all that much. I could see TT thinking - I want a chance to be a regular starter in midfield, and I'd love to be part of this new thing in my hometown. I'm sure Matias likes having him on the team, but he'd understand, and will Matias even be around anyway?
Yeah, but Sac may not care all that much. His salary would still be relatively low I'm assuming, by MLS standards.
For sure, I'm surprised MLS hasn't implemented a rule about HG's losing that exempt status at a certain age.
I don't see an age limitation on the HG roster rules. There is a salary cap of sorts. They can earn only $125k more than minimum, which is what, $60k or something. But it's a great deal. You can have as many HG's as you want and none of them would count against the cap as long as you keep their salary under the max.
Well don't the HG guys want to earn more then 125K? I make that in about 6 months editing peoples photoshop work lol its not that much money in this area, in fact I feel like its minimum wage, these dudes work way harder then me. If Fisher truly is a cheap fcuk, he should sign 30 HG's.