Official Red Bulls offseason thread

Being the 6th team out of 10 when 2 are brand new teams is now considered an accomplishment?

Wow. This really speaks volumes about this team. Wonder if this is the mentality of most of the fan base or just a few of you.

Suppose 8 out of 10 made the playoffs; would making it still be an accomplishment?

 

Its the reality of the situation, this year we lost a lot of major pieces to the team and need to rebuild. That doesn't happen overnight, so yes for 2015 I'd be satisfied with a team that's a playoff contender.

Its not like if we get bounced from the first round of the playoffs year after year I'd just say "oh well at least we're playoff contenders". At some point you gotta put the pieces together, and hold guys accountable if they can't accomplish that in a few years. But right after losing our most successful coach and the most talented player in MLS history with only modest replacements? Yeah I'm OK with a playoff contender, because honestly for awhile it was looking like it was going to be even worse than that.

You seem to think this is indicative of complacency, and I'd disagree. Complacency would be accepting a mediocre team that's stagnated without demanding change. I think the new guys at least deserve a season to build to something.

 

We lost Henry. This is a huge loss. That said, we opted to fire or trade away all of the other pieces. It was done by choice. This was all by design, not by circumstance.

So, we take a team thats had success winning the SS and making it a goal away from the Cup and purposely flipped the team 180. Now you'd be satisfied with a team that comes in 6th out 10 teams (with 2 being expansion teams)? That's telling commentary on how you hold decision makers accountable.

This is the exact definition of complacency. You're seemingly satisfied being a losing team and are placated by an easy to make playoff format. "We made the playoffs". "Playoff contender" I mean you are "satisfied" with being 6th?

A what point does your BS needle move when gauging 'playoff contention' a success? If only 5 teams made the playoffs and we came in the same 6th place you are lauding here, would that still be a success in your view?

Fans just accepting losing. I expect that from the team, not from the fan base. A goal away from the cup to 6th place and peeps are happy with that. We lost ONE guy. We dismantled the rest. And now 6th place has people all jazzed.

This team gets more depressing by the weeks. I guess a loser team breeds that loser mentality.

 

Dude all I was talking about was where I realistically thought this team would end up this year given what's happened, and you fly off the handle about who is a "good fan" or not? What do you think I don't WANT the team to win it all? Gimme a break....

 

Fly off the handle? Good fan or bad fan? Who said either? Just because you are more of the complacent type doesnt make you any less of a fan. Not in the least. We are all fans just the same.

You are talking about being satified with 6th place. You talking about playoff contention like it is some real major accomplishment. If you'd rather run away from those comments, then so be it. I wouldnt blame ya, they pretty lowly expectations. "YOU would be satisfied if we are a playoff contender" This is what YOU said, Mr Persnikety.

I'll throw you some softballs next time if these are too tough for you, bro. Geesh...

 

We have to have some more guys coming in, right? We are short out wide in both attack and defense.
And management, can we please not rely on a teenage Cameroonian that none of us had heard of this time last week as cover for BWP?

I'm still worried about our back line, but I have more confidence in Miazga than most. I'd like to see him given every opportunity to grab a starting spot. He was rather impressive in the U20 qualifying tourney.

 

I would think we would need someone we can depend on in the back to anchor it ala Olave.

We know what we have with Miller. Duvall is okay (obviously still young and prone to mistakes)

I like Miazga too, but do we want another young guy back there with so little experience? I dunno.

Somehow: Duvall /Miazga/Miller And insert any of the other new guys or Armando and that doesnt look especially rock solid to me.

I suspect we will be missing Olave this season like we were missing Holgersonn last. Big time. He swept up quite a few messes for us.

 

Good bit of business by Curtis to let Cahill go on a free.

It's not like he's in demand anywhere making $10 million.

Jesus.

300 page plan call for this?

 

Red Bulls was th instigator telling to Cahill get it the hell out of here, so, how you expect they will charge fee for that, when is the player that could ask for his 2015 salary because he has a 2015 guaranty, with Cahill my list I predicted in November is complete, of course like always is to late to replace the players we need and they will say that we have to wait until June or July or so......

 

Its a really weird situation, they held out to the last day of the transfer window to terminate Cahill's contract which says to me that they were waiting to field offers that included a transfer fee. But then that means that there are clubs willing to pay Cahill $9-10M a year salary but not pitch in a modest transfer fee? Maybe they were so confident that Cahill would push to leave NY no matter what that they didn't feel it was necessary?

 

they are not that stupid that they would turn down money (I hope). When it came down to paying a malcontent/locker room cancer 3 million for a season (I forget exactly what his salary was) or to let him go for free, they chose the latter. That does seem to be evidence of a more cost-conscious approach.

 

Just a quibble, it's actually more like $7.5M US. The story I've seen is from the Sydney Morning Herald and the quote of $10M is Australian Dollars.

That said, Cahill doubles his salary and this club once again fails to get any value in return for a player with miles left in his tank, see Marquez. The message is that any player who's willing to be a big enough douche can break his contract with this club and walk away with no consequences.

Does everyone at this club just walk around on eggshells? If Curtis comes in with a mandate to change the way things are done at this club, he's doing a piss poor job.

 

That is the WEIRD situation...The China Team is only paying him 3M..... Go and figure......

 

They're actually paying him $7.75M per year, more than TWICE what we were paying him. Its the highest ever salary for the Chinese league apparently.

 

A couple of things...

First, there is finally some info regarding Marsch's tactical/formation ideas in this article
http://www.sbisoccer.com/2015/02/formation-armando-absentees.html
I like his preference for 4-2-3-1, 4-1-4-1 and 4-3-3 as I personally see those as the optimal soccer formations in the mkodern game (love the lone striker!). I'm still worried about our lack of quality out wide, though.

Secondly, I'm not sure RBNY is any different than most clubs in the world when it comes to pouting stars getting released. I'm personally fine with letting Cahill walk if that was the only way to be rid of him now. You don't want him in the locker room at this point and I have to believe that the team will at least reinvest some of his huge salary into a new addition or two.

 

Any team that employs a lone striker AND either wingers or wide attacking mids had better have outstanding players at those wide positions, otherwise the attack suffers quite a bit. It's too easy to shut down a striker if he's left on an island, a secondary effect is that it can lead to the "scoring by committee" approach that can be harder to stop but is also less coherent. Since we don't have great wingers, I can only assume that this will mean 5 goals from one guy and 6 from another and maybe 9 from BWP. Make of that what you will.

It's a cop out to let a player like Cahill walk. If he doesn't want to play for this club anymore he could have always watched it from the stands.

 

Is it worth dumping $3.5M down the drain to tell prospective players "if you aren't happy for whatever reason, we're going to hold you hostage"?

The club waited until literally the last day of the Euro transfer window to field a transfer fee for Cahill. MLS is involved in that process too and they don't want money to slip away either. I think the real question we should be asking here, is why weren't any clubs actually willing to offer a transfer fee if his services were in such high demand that Shanghai is willing to pay him twice what we are?

 

Transfer fees are generally upfront payments. Seeing as how this is the same team that DID NOT pay Drogba and Anelka what they said they would, I think it makes more sense. They quote a crazy salary number to get him to agree to come there and then pray that the finances work out (they won't).
I don't think it's very realistic to assume we'd get more than a pittance for a 35-year old.

 

That's the other side of it, MLS only paid a $1M transfer fee to get Cahill from Everton. I understand that his stock is high after the Asian Cup, but enough so that someone would top his previous fee at the age of 35?

Its never a good thing to give up something for nothing, I 100% get that, but in the end we're probably talking about a few hundred thousand dollar transfer fee, of which we only get a small cut as allocation money.

 

Call me crazy, I just think as a business principle, you get a transfer fee for a marketable player. It's not like this is the first time, or even the second. Letting a player skate just because he'll be unhappy if you don't doesn't sound like a long term strategy. I mean get something, even it isn't much, in order to send the message.

Maybe the interest just wasn't there, but the way this story spins out, neither Red Bull nor the league come out looking very good.

 

why would a team pay a transfer fee when you know damn well that he's gone no matter what?

sign him on your terms after the inevitable happens.

 

Except that in a salary capped league with so much parity...ANY allocation money you get is worth it's weight in gold.

If Ali is so learned in MLS rules and regulations he should have found a way to squeeze a couple bucks out of a guy who just went for 7.5 million.

Also for those fans thinking "hey well maybe the money we paid him will go to a big signing"...I think you're in for disappointment.

 

I guess what I'm getting at is that for all the things we can already blame on Curtis, this isn't one of them. MLS rules and regulations have nothing to do with getting an international club to offer a transfer fee, if the offer doesn't exist then you can't blame Ali for not taking it. And I can't wrap my head around any reason why Red Bull or MLS (who is likely a huge part of the process) wouldn't accept any offer that came in, even a meager one like I mentioned before. Maybe they could have come up with a better sales pitch? Drummed up a mysterious bidding war?

As for the last point, its depressingly true...

 

This is what I was getting at. CLEARLY there was a demand for cahills services. The fact that we didn't even squeeze a penny out of a player valued at 7.5 million is extremely frustrating.

 

What gets me is guys like Bradley, Richards,Altidore we develop when they are young, they leave and come back top MLS and sign with a different club. I know the stupid allocation rules and everything but just saying....