Official: LUdwig and Namoff out

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by John_Harkes_6, Aug 8, 2002.

  1. John_Harkes_6

    John_Harkes_6 New Member

    Mar 29, 2000
    Baltimore, MD.
  2. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ludwig showed nothing that looked like an MLS player. He might be a nice kid but he belongs down in the A-League.
     
  3. go_united_go

    go_united_go New Member

    Mar 12, 2002
    And for million dollars: NOW WHAT?
     
  4. Lowecifer

    Lowecifer Member+

    Jan 11, 2000
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    With all due respect, Ludwig was given zero chance to prove himself.

    He had 30 minutes. 30 F&%#$%^^ ing MINUTES!

    I am convinced that Ray Hudson has been abused by men in their late teens and early twenties, and as a result treats them like crap. Ray is an entertaining guy, but his credibility recedes with each passing day.

    I'm sure someone will say something about him not 'practicing well', which is a load of bunk, considering Hudson's management style.
     
  5. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did you see him in warmups? Would you like to sit down Q2 or Moreno so that Ludwig cn get playing time. I'm more disturbed about Mapp's lack of playing time. I had a much better assement of his play during the Boca match then some people, Ray included did.
     
  6. Th4119

    Th4119 Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Annandale, VA
    In the one game I saw him in, Ludwig was presented with the 3 best chances of the game by other players, and blew them all. Good riddance.
     
  7. Eastern Bear

    Eastern Bear Member+

    Feb 27, 1999
    Great Falls, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    What little I saw of both Ludwig and Mapp indicated severe dear in headlight syndrome. At least Mapp is very young and can develop more. Yes, these last few drafts have been a big waste. How many quality players identified by this particular group of internet nuts did we pass on? Vaca? Twellman? Others?
     
  8. Lowecifer

    Lowecifer Member+

    Jan 11, 2000
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I am also very disturbed by Mapp's lack of time.

    With Ludwig: Fine, he wasn't good in warm-ups. Has anyone looked like Ronaldo in warm-ups this season? And, Moreno has sat himself down just fine without any of us requesting he do so.

    They better be signing someone tomorrow, otherwise, what's the point of waiving the guy?

    Hudson and Kasper have proved they know little about managing a draft.

    I'm not having a go at you shawn, I'm just steamed with the way this club is being managed.
     
  9. Th4119

    Th4119 Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Annandale, VA
    John Trask has looked amazing in warm-ups Eric. He puts almost all his shots in the upper 90.
     
  10. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not taking it personally.;) I thought after with what I have seen of Ludwig, he was a poor draft choice as well. We also don't know if this mystery signing is close or not, since United's leak is quiet right now, probably out of fear.
     
  11. Lowecifer

    Lowecifer Member+

    Jan 11, 2000
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Then we should insert him into the starting line-up by God! Incidentally, how pathetic is it that our assitant coach has the most consistent shot on the team? I remember in high-school, our "unofficial" assistant coach couldn't hit the broad side of the barn. His name was Hank, we called him Shank.
     
  12. Th4119

    Th4119 Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Annandale, VA
    Our HS coach this year was our best player, used to play pro ball, but let's keep this one closer to DC United.

    I've been giving my opinion from La Norte to "SIGN TRASK" for a few games now.
     
  13. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    So, from the great perge of 2001 that got us all those draft picks, we gave up Goose, Llamosa, Presthus and a few others and have to show for it Tino and Nelsen.

    From this year's draft we have Mapp, who has played all of 1 minute, and McGinty, who has yet to play (though in fairness, he has done his job).

    Not exactly a stellar endorsement of the club's scouting abilities, is it.

    And, I just want to point out that last fall, when the coaching and TD situation was in limbo, I made several posts saying that not having people scouting the ACC Tournament, the Final Four and other big college games was going to come back and bite us in the ass. Well, right about now, I think we're missing a big chunk out of our posterior.
     
  14. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you have hit the nail on the head. Did both Ray and Dave not come in just weeks before the draft? You can say all you want about both of them having postions in MLS prior to that where they should have had scouting information on the draft. The counter to that is this question.

    How would anyone of us do if taking the equivalent to a mid-term exam on the second day of class? Even if we had just finished the prerequiste course for it just before.
     
  15. CHICO13

    CHICO13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2001
    SECTION 135
    Club:
    The Strongest La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    How much immediate help should we expect out of the draft? Any draft? Granted players like Vaca (a no brainer IMHO) and Twellman are the type of players you want to work into your system over time. I don't think any player can meet our expectations coming straight out of college or P-40.
    The league has improved way too much for that. We have a good solid core. We need to build around that core with good tough role players, and use our cap money wisely.
     
  16. Lowecifer

    Lowecifer Member+

    Jan 11, 2000
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Precisely my point CHICO, we shouldn't expect them to by stellar from day one, which is why it is baffling to give up on them so quickly!

    And as far as RH & DK being unprepared for the draft, there is a point there. We have to direct our inquisitive glances at Mr. Zack and the esteemed Mr. Payne and wonder why a contingency plan to send a United staff member to scout for the draft was not in place.

    Tough questions. What are the answers?

    What is not a tough question in light of all the player movement this season is:

    "Was the 2002 Superdraft an unmitigated disaster?"
     
  17. SpikeFC

    SpikeFC New Member

    Jun 27, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    DC Drafting

    Just wanted to take a reality check on the draft grade for DC, at least from last years draft, and this is for me too.

    When we picked Mapp, #4, Twellman was already gone...we had no shot at him. The only two guys that were picked in the first round that have contributed this year were Kelly Gray and Kyle Martino [who would be a nice future replacement for Marco].

    When we picked Kante, we passed on the following players who were picked and I even recognize their names...Jordan Stone - no pt that I know of, Craig Capano - same, Jeff Stewart - fullback that we don't need, Ian Fuller - would have been interesting, Gavin Glinton - small impact in LA, Alejandro Moreno - playing some for LA, and Jeff Moore - starting at d-mid for NY.

    While I am still amazed that we picked Kante in the first round, never signed him, and then released him to go sign for someone else...doesn't look like there was a whole lot of talent that we passed on.

    So while I'm not all that impressed with who we picked, it seems like we'd probably be saying the same thing with most of the other options.

    Saying all that...would have been nice to trade up for Twellman.

    Just my $.02.
     
  18. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    I think we drafted well, but in hindsight every team could have drafted better than they did. I was quite upset when we passed on Eddie Johnson several times, but when we selected Namoff (whom I didn't really know at the time) ahead of him I went bonkers. Man, could we have used a great forward this season. If we had managed to get Suarez instead of Nelsen Rongen might still be coaching United. ;)

    -Tron
     
  19. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Well, if it was such a no-brainer, how come DCU passed on him... TWICE! (United picked 3rd and 4th in 2001; Vaca went 5th.)

    I disagree. Look at Brad Davis, Kelly Gray and Kyle Martino this year, along with second round pick Jeff Stewart. All making major contributions to their teams. And, make no mistake, when Chris Gbandi is healthy, he'll be a very good player.

    Or, last year, when Ryan Suarez (another player we passed on) and the aforementioned Vaca were taken along with Santino and, even though he got off to a rough start, Chris Carrieri, who is now a pretty dangerous attacker in MLS.

    There is talent out there that can step in and play right away but you have to do your homework. This means scouting the youth national teams, going to their qualifiers, their respective world championships and even a few friendlies. Did United send anyone to Argentina last year to scout the 20s? The answer is no, but, the Fire sent a scout and low and behold, they got Gray after United passed on him. Did United scout the 17s to see that, for all his talent, Mapp had issues with intensity and work habits? Apparently not.

    It also means scouting the colleges, thouroughly. The Stewarts and Suarezes, who weren't on youth national teams, are out there but you have to go look for them.

    The days of simply taking the best player from Virginia are over, in part because Virginia, while still a strong power, isn't cranking out the players the way it did when Bruce was there. And, back then, DCU had Arena who knew the talent because he had been in the college trenches. It's how he was able to get Pope and Talley, from having seen them play at UNC.

    Well, now we have coaches that aren't as connected to the college scene so they're gonna have to work a little harder when it comes to scouting.

    Again, the talent that can step right in and play contribute immediately IS out there, but the team is gonna have to do its homework and it's obvious it didn't do enough homework - in large part because Kevin Payne waited too long to hire a coach and a TD - before the last draft.
     
  20. owendylan

    owendylan Member

    May 30, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    No it's like taking the final the day after coming back from a long vacation. Hudson should have been scouting college players for the Fusion once the season ended. While he may not have know all the holes DC needed filled he should have been familiar enough with the players in the draft to figure out their worth and decide if they were worth a draft pick. They had plenty of time to scout players before joining DC. I still say they didn't do their homework enough, mainly because Ray has no real faith in young players so he probably didn't care to know much about them. They have both been negligent in this regard.
     
  21. CHICO13

    CHICO13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2001
    SECTION 135
    Club:
    The Strongest La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia

    I asked Kevin Payne TWICE why we passed on Vaca and never got a straight answer. :confused:
    Edited by revelation to fix formating of second quote. :)
     
  22. thelms

    thelms New Member

    Jun 11, 2002
    the city of angels
    I never saw Kelly Gray play in college, but I did see Kyle Martino a number of times. It was obvious to a blind man that the guy was a future MLS all-star. How you pass on that?

    Well, it probably involves being both ignorant of the team you have on your books AND the talent available in the draft. One could probably say the same of the Eddie Johnson, Ryan Suarez, Joselito Vaca fiasco.
     
  23. weasel

    weasel New Member

    Oct 31, 2000
    NYC
    We passed on Vaca because most people believed that he would leave MLS within a couple of years and wasn't worth the draft pick and development effort. Only time will tell if this was a wise choice, but I don't have a problem with it since MLS doesn't fairly compensate teams when players are sold. (Well, I'm sure they would if it were NY or LA)
     
  24. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    You mean "most people" besides Mike Jeffries? Why did Dallas know he would stick around for awhile and DC didn't?

    I just don't buy that Vaca-wasn't-gonna-stick-around theory. Why was Vaca not worth the risk but Convey, Tino and Mapp were? They're all the same age (83-84) and similar promise. You're telling me it was OK to take a flyer on one of those guys but it made sense to pass on Vaca? Please!

    Granted, there's no sense whining about it since Rongen is gone and Payne has been booted upstairs but they blew that call, plain and simple, by taking Lisi over Vaca or, for that matter, Suarez. (I think it was a mistake taking Nelsen over Suarez but Nellie has really come on of late so that mistake doesn't look as glaring.)
     
  25. McOwen

    McOwen Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    Retirement Community
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Thats a good point regarding Payne. People need to remember he has not faired much better in recent history then our Hudson Zack combo has in this past years draft. --all of that talent given up for a bunch of A-League talent.... :-(
     

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