Official Fire Jurgen Klinsmann Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by ussoccer97531, May 22, 2014.

  1. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Holy severe mental illness. Dads in the room……. This us why hugging your kids at night is so important , otherwise this happens later in life
     
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  2. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anyone who understands the 4-4-2 diamond that we played and how we played it would certainly understand why EJ would be useful and LD at that point in his career not as valuable. It is not rocket science for anyone with even a basic understanding of the game.

    I am going to just ignore you. As the other poster said you are not providing anything other than Klinsmann sucks. You are not entertaining.
     
  3. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    I am not here to entertain you. Go watch Netflix for that. You continue to prove my point right. You are so one eyed with some weird blood oath hate for LD, you can't admit the most basic premise.

    Jk had every right to cut LD. It's his team and if the team falls short of the benchmark, it is him who gets fired not the player or players. He put the team filled with the kind of players he wanted with the right personality and mentality he wanted.

    No for all his talk all he achieved was the standard that has been achieved before and after and no new heights then we have to ask about his squad formation. Considering the crucial moment in the game where his squad make up came to bite him and the nation in ass, maybe he should have relented on his ideology and take a proven difference maker causing mentality don't matter if you ain't winning big games.

    10 years later and you can't even say the previous paragraph cause it will hurt your heart. But let's talk about leaving EJ being left off.

    Fyi: Landon had great success with Everton playing in a two striker setup. But yeah the diamond was critical. It's not like it was the world cup and win or go home.
     
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  4. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @TheHoustonHoyaFan can I chime in for a second?

    I’m not doing the work to look up 10 year old articles so maybe my memory is wrong, but to me, the key thing is that when Jozy got hurt, we switched from 2 strikers to 1. We had to change our approach because JK didn’t like his like-for-like replacements for Altidore, or like-for-like as the 2nd attacker once Clint became our #9.

    EDIT on the page turn

    @Deadtigers at Everton, Donovan played opposite Pienaar on the wing, behind the strikers. That was a 4-4-2 team.
     
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  5. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    I stand corrected. I could not find an old enough article showing the setup but I saw him listed as a LF all those times so I thought he must have played as one of the strikers.

    You get my two points argument right? It's not that hatd.
     
  6. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #7156 TheHoustonHoyaFan, Oct 9, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2024
    When Jozy got hurt we brought in AJ and kept the same 2 striker formation for the Ghana match. AJ was the like for like substitution. AJ played 67+ vs Ghana.

    The problem is AJ then got hurt and it turns out was unavailable for the rest of the tournament. He ended up having ankle surgery right after the WC per Earnie Stewart who was AJ's TD at AZ.

    So before our 2nd WC v Portugal match we were down 2 strikers to injury. Now what do you do?
     
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  7. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Youve identified the first order issue, and you’re right, what the hell DO you do?

    My response is, why was Diskerud on the roster, or Green, if they weren’t the answer to that question?

    My opinion on cutting Landon is that JK thought he was a bench player for the team by then, but his personality and stature was such that having him on the bench would create problems.

    Maybe Jurgen was right about that. But if he was, he should have thought about what he would do if a player recovering from injury (Johansson) and another who is injury prone (Altidore) got hurt, what would you do? He had no answer.

    If he wasn’t worried about injuries like that, he was stupid.

    If he decided to gamble on only 1 forward getting injured, my response is, as the coach it’s your job to make it work. If you can’t you get criticized .

    It’s easy to second guess a decision, but people were saying it was a bad idea before we lost 2 strikers against Ghana, because we believed Landon would be needed; he really was pretty elite on the counter. What kind of coach couldn’t use a player like that?
     
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  8. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    4-4-1-1

    Cahill played as an odd 10. So yes Donovan was playing as a wide midfielder in a flat 4
     
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  9. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #7159 TheHoustonHoyaFan, Oct 9, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2024
    We did have another striker. We did have Wondo at striker who was leading MLS in goals at selection time which is what got him in. The thought process for not starting Wondo is you want to have a true striker available to bring on at 65 to 70 going for a goal. Almost paid off against Belgium.

    At the time of the decision in 2014 I went on record saying that Klinsmann should have taken LD. He could have taken LD instead of Brad Davis and nobody would have blinked an eye. I won't now be a hypocrite and argue that Klinsmann could not have given Donovan a role in 2014. He could have.

    Donovan was not a solution to the striker injury situation, that is a bridge way too far. LD to his credit acknowledged in his Kicking it interviews that at that point he was no longer a starter but felt he could help the team. I agree.

    With full 20/20 hindsight you take LD instead of Davis with the hope that LD can give you 25 to 30 minutes as an attacking sub and you take EJ instead of Mix because Mix did not play a single minute and EJ as a backup and his ability to score big goals with his head could have been useful.

    In the end would not have changed much except LD gets a WC sendoff.

    Sometimes we want to see The Talisman as that elite class counter attack threat. The fact is that in 2014 he was no longer that. I was at the April 2014 friendly vs Mexico where Klinsmann first rolled out the 4-4-2 diamond and brought on both Green on the left and LD on the right as attacking subs, flattening the formation. You could hear JK screaming on the sideline "Take him, on. Take him on" every time LD got the ball. LD tried but kept getting stuffed by old-ass Rafa Marquez. LD had lost at least a full step and was also battling nagging injuries of his own. Time marches on.
     
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  10. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, I think that’s what it was. Cahill’s style of play was really unique, hard to say exactly what he was.
     
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  11. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    @superdave thanks for articulating my points in a much more complete and thorough. @TheHoustonHoyaFan thanks for agreeing to Dave's points which were my points but better stated.
     
  12. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    He was a pass and move 10 before there was a term for it. And thr 4411 is really the precursor to the 4231
     
  13. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My thought on soccer formations is, there are really only two issues.

    1. 2 central defenders or 3?
    2. 1 striker or 2?

    Once a coach decides those two things, anything the team does are just variations on a theme.
     
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  14. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Talking about the debut of the 4-4-2 diamond with MB80 at the tip brought a smile to my face. It also shows how small plays can change a squad moving forward, for better or worse.

    MB90 in that role was incredibly bright. and Zusi serves a great dead ball.

    3:26 if EJ gets this goal which was wrongly called offsides he is likely on the roster. EJ was a force in WCQ the previous year.

    3:47. As a sub, Green's ability to take on players and maybe draw a penalty contrasted with LD's struggles on the other side of the pitch. That contrast created outsized importance in Klinsmann's mind.

     
  15. Mario Balotelli

    Mario Balotelli Member+

    United States
    Feb 28, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In Asian World Cup Qualifying, South Korea handily defeated the hosts, Jordan 2-0. They only allowed 2 shots on target and had 75% of the possession. This was without their talisman, Heung-Min Son.

    During the Asian Cup, several months back with Son in the fold, South Korea drew 2-2 with Jordan in the group stage and then lost 2-0 in the knockout round. In the elimination game, they had 0 shots on on target. This, once again, speaks volumes to Klinsmann's complete ineptitude and incompetence as a manager.
     
  16. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is either deliberate misinformation or very poor axe-grinding. Given your history, it is likely both.

    Jordon was in incredible form during the Asian Cup, made a magical run and lost in the final to Qatar.

    In the Jordan semi finals Korea was without Kim Min-jae due to YC accumulation. Jordan has since come back to earth having already tied with Kuwait in WCQ before ther lost to Korea.

    Japan, Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Australia were the favorites to win the trophy.

    Klinsmann was rightly fired by Korea primarily because he refused to live in Korea which he agreed to when he was hired. Klinsmann is doing what he does best which is to get paid to not manage a soccer team!

    For anyone interested in the Asian Cup match:

     
  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't think that's correct. He'd never leave California.

    Korea were fricking horrible in the Asian Cup.
     
  18. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    t is the method of study being utilised that is a bigger issue than results.

    In his first press conference, the former Germany boss indicated he would live in South Korea, as his predecessors have all done. Seoul media, however, has calculated that the 59-year-old has spent just 67 days in the country in the six months since his appointment.

    "The fans are very disappointed with the fact he is spending most of his time in the USA rather than in Korea," said South Korea journalist Lee Sung-mo.

    There is plenty of football to watch as the domestic K-League has entered its final quarter of the season.

    "The games are being played every week, and there are many talented young players there," said Lee. "The fans expect the manager to visit to see them himself and communicate with fans, K-League clubs and players."


    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/66719384
     
  19. Mario Balotelli

    Mario Balotelli Member+

    United States
    Feb 28, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What is my history that you're alluding to? This is either deliberate misinformation or very poor axe-grinding. Given your history of passive aggressiveness and Jurgen-evangelism, it is likely both.

    Great form or not, South Korea has no business losing to Jordan with no shots on target, or drawing against Malaysia, for that matter. End of discussion. :ROFLMAO:
     
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  20. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not living in South Korea didn’t help in terms of building goodwill but he was fired because of the performance in the Asian Cup. Had the tournament had gone well he’d still be the coach.
     
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  21. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In 2018 we had no issue losing to CR at home or T&T on the road but we did. Does not suddenly " speaks volumes to complete ineptitude and incompetence as a manager".

    That is a brain dead conclusion on your part.
     
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  22. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They had not won an Asian Cup since what 1964? They probably hired him at what was reported in German circles as 3X what they had ever paid a manager before because they thought he could get them over the hump. As reported if he had been a part of the local Korean Soccer scene as he had said he would he might have had some rope.

    They sacked him and have to pay him the remainder of his contract so he gets to hang out in LA and still get paid. That has been his MO.
     
  23. Golazo69

    Golazo69 Member+

    Aug 2, 2017
    If he’d performed better, he’d have a job, his residency status had nothing to do with his dismissal, full stop
     
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  24. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes and had he won the Asian Cup he’d still be the coach no matter where he was living.
     
  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Instead South Korea was a mess and scraped some last minute victories.
     
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