Official DC United vs MetroStars PRE Match Thread

What is Namoff's status? I thought he was shipped off to Richmond and that he's no longer on DC's roster.

 

sormun- thanks for your ravings. I'm sure Convey would be suprised as all of us if he read that "Convey & Co" would be the way anyone would describe the midfield of DU, Etcheverry especially. We all know that you hate Convey and thus I suppose that you will be pained to see him starting for the team next year. Also if you follow the U-20's, which I doubt, you'd see him play a-mid there.

sormun you ought to try comparing Convey to other young midfielders in the league. You'd find that he compares favorably, even in scoring. You should also look how most every player in the league walks some of the time including a-mids like Etcheverry, Nowak, Vaca, your boy Cien, Eklund, Andy Williams, Perez, Preki, Mathis, and get this- even Valderamma! But then again, if you are thinking work rate translates into quality of play then we really don't have a conversation here do we?


Anyways...
DCU is in a fortunate situation with Convey, Quaranta, and Mapp in that all three will be getting some good experience in the U-20 tournament. To me it's logical to piggyback what they will do with Rongen with the last three games we have this year, games that otherwise meaningless. If we do what I advocate, i'd say we'd have a better understanding what our priorities will be in the offseason. Most of us here understand that the salary cap will be a major constraint in rebuilding the team. This means, basically, that thought has to be applied in deciding where to spend money- what positions and how much money.Wherever we can use a cheap young american will be a plus. That Convey can hold down the left wing is a given to most everyone here. But can Mapp possibly do the same? If so, could Convey move to a-mid? Would he develop there considering that he doesn't play with his head in the sand? Can Quaranta really be counted on as a starting forward?

 

You know, i forgot about him when making my lineup, but it seems that he should be included in these last three games, possibly at d-mid, unless Hudson just won't play him and he'd get more time in Richmond.

 

Um, excuse me folks, but why the HECK would ANYONE think that DC United will play with 2 forwards on Thursday at the Meadowlands!? DC United will come out in they usual 4-5-1 or perhaps a 3-6-1 and really threaten the Metroscum goal!

---Rimando---

Reyes--Pope--Prideaux--McKinley

Villegas--Olsen--Williams--Etch--Convey

---Moreno---

If I'm the Metroscum defense (I'd have killed myself already...), then I'm going to wonder how to spend all my free time during the game. Do I play cards with Jolley or bring along some Madlibs for some festive puning? Hmmmm, so many decisions...

 

I don't know his status as to whether he could be called in to play for DC or not, but he has been starting regularly for Richmond, and they have playoff games Friday and Sunday in the A-League Eastern Conference Semifinals against the top seed in the East, the Charleston Battery.

 

I don't believe DC will go w/2 forwards (don't start telling me Olsen counts as a forward). Probably go back to the 1 forward.

WARNING TO YOUNG CHILDREN-OBSCENE STATISTICS TO FOLLOW. THOSE UNDER 18 PLEASE STOP READING HERE

I checked and this is what we've gotten from our one forward lineup:

July 6, DC @ NE, Curtis lone forward, NE 2-0
July 31, DC @ Chicago, Moreno lone forward then subbed for by Curtis lone forward, Tie 0-0
Aug 25, DC @ Metros, Q2 lone forward then subbed for by Lassiter lone forward, Metros 1-0
Sept 7, DC @ NE, Moreno lone forward, NE 3-0

Do you know of ONE OTHER TEAM that plays this crap one forward lineup?? Tampa played the one forward lineup w/Diallo and they were the WORST IN THE LEAGUE. From these stats we have spent 370 minutes w/the one forward lineup and have YET TO SCORE EVEN ONCE! Not only that-we can't score so why make that problem even worse! Not only that-we HAVE to score we CANNOT play for the tie!!!

I just sit there and remain absolutely ASTOUNDED by just how BONEHEADED it is that whoever believes in this one forward POS can continue to do that. I am sorry BUT HOW STUPID CAN YOU BE!!!!!

The last 2 times we played w/2 forwards, we scored 4 at home against San Jose for the win, and 2 on the road against San Jose for the tie. Yet we revert back to the one forward lineup.

Not only that, in our last game we go w/bunches of defenders and few offensive players.

I was listening to NFL talk show radio last night, and there were some real stupid plays yesterday in NFL games, but the guy remembered the dumbest ever. He said no kidding this happened.

The Cardinals were near the goal line and ran 3 times straight into the line, no gain. 4th and goal, they ran straight into the line. But wait, there's a penalty. Fresh set of downs. Believe it or not, the Cardinals then proceeded to run FOUR MORE TIMES STRAIGHT INTO THE LINE FOR LITTLE GAIN.

This one-forward lineup is really a testament and a glowing example of just how STUPID people can be. A 4-year-old child could figure out that when we have trouble scoring we don't take away a scorer from our lineup.

Oh wait-I heard the 1-forward lover now!!
"DUHHHHHH

Uhhhh....excuse me...but I am a FIN RETARD

DUHHHHHHHHHH (the dim light barely flickers in his head)"

 

Scum 4-2 DC

Scum up 2-0 at the half, 4-0 after 68'. DC pulls back two late, meaningless consolation goals.

 

That's right. The Kickers have playoff games this weekend and would be disheartened to play for a team missing the playoffs for a third straight year. So, that's not an option.

 

Everyone quit crying and go out and support your team for two more games. Barra Brava still has two tailgates left so all is not lost. Let's just go out and harass the Metros and Burn. At least United took a bullet in the teeth rather the chemotherapy-like torture of the 8th playoff slot.
I expected better from this team, we all did. It sucks but what the hell.

 

This now enters the part of the season where we can have fun. The results don't matter, so the team should enjoy themselves and play relaxed. The fans should go sing loud and proud. If we had relegation, I have the perfect song... "We'll be promoted again! We'll be promoted again!" (sounds best in its original language...)

 

This is when one can tell the difference from frontrunning Washington wannabees and real supporters. I'm with DCU til I die --- Red and Black will be back --- with more Cups! Never give up, never surrender.

 

I was talking about the "one forward tactic of death" with a co-worker today and he was asking if this was something Ray did on the road with the Fusion (maybe this has already been mentioned here, but I don't recall). I can't for the life of me fathom why he thinks is the the way to go as it's been a proven loser all season.

K

 

OK. It is my understanding, from your post,that you have no comments about the qualities that a central midfielder has to have but,instead, you prefere to argue about statistics.You think that a comparation with the rest of the midfielders will clear him from his mediocre position among the peers.

OK.Let's compare statistics !! Convey had in 23 games 3 goals, 2(???) assists in 1972 min.That means he is 3/2 .
Let's see the best: Henderson 11/6, Chung 10/9,
Klein 6/5, Eklund 6/8, Preki 6/9, Mathis 4/3 (half time playing), Davis 4/3 (half time),Martinez 3/9.
Do you think he can compare with those guys ??
Vaca 1/7,Cien 2/7, Novac 2/4, Valderama 1/ 14 (??)
and Beasley 3/3 have played a lot less games to be able to draw any conclusion. Soo, what do you think a good performance for a "super-super future great talent " should be, in this league!! His performance as a starter was pathetic, he has only two assists in 23 games.Is this a shame or what?? Can you in good faith compare his performance with Valderama with 14 assists.For god sakes, what in the world are you preaching ?? Keep Convey another year despite his poor record last and this year !! What in the world is the logic behind this attitude ?? Keep Convey for what ?? Do we need his s..... performance or we need a Chung's performance ??? This kidd Eliseo has scored,almost the same # of goals in a few games than Convey in the whole season. Who should we keep ?? It is no rocket science to me ? Who should we bring ?? Again, I would trade Convey for any other good midfielder anytime. This is a professional league not a kindergarden !! We are making the playoffs or not by the number of goals and assists not by the future prospectives.
I want a midfield that can win the games today, not in the years to come.We are comming to the stadium to see good soccer today, not next year !!

I had enough with the argument that takes time for a player to become a star player.So what , what happens in the mean time ??? We are gonna lose games after games, years after years, until they grow up ?? This is plain stupid,IMHO !!
OK. You want to keep him , keep him, on the bench but, do not begin another year with him as a starter !! I do not see any reason why a poor performance this year is worth starting him next year. Forget about an enhanced position like the central midfielder.

Ray wants to keep him as a left winger. So what he will be wrong !! How about if in the first 6 games he is not improving than what?? Is it worth it to start another bad year ??

 

Sormum, the crappy year has been Convey's fault? Man, did he steal your girlfriend or something? He's the least of our problems. Those start up front. And in defensive midfield. And with the lack of depth.

 

Sormuns Apples to Oranges List

OK sormun, let's be reasonable shall we?

A winger is a different position than a central attacking/creative midfielder. It's also a different position than a forward. Let's look at your list ... and then let's look at the list of people that play Convey's position.

Sormun's list:
Henderson 11/6 - played as forward for about a third of the year because of Spencer's injuries. When he played winger he was on the right, not left, but clearly did outperform Convey.

Chung 10/9 - played as the central attacking midfielder for about a quarter of the year, but spent most of the time as the left winger--Convey's position--and clearly outplayed Convey.

Klein 6/5 - played right wing and was not very impressive until the team added two finishers. All in all arguably did better than Convey, but also arguably not as well.

Eklund 6/8 - central midfielder on a team loaded with offense.

Preki 6/9 - central midfielder and sometimes forward who brings no defense but more offense than almost any central midfielder in MLS.

Mathis 4/3 (half time playing) - split his time between forward and central midfielder, one of the top 5 players in MLS, but never played a minute at Convey's position.

Davis 4/3 (half time) - Good comparison! He's a left winger, and his statistics were in a direct correllation to the finishers on his team. Without Mathis and Diallo his statistics were not impressive. With 3 finishers (including Faria), he has put up impressive numbers. He doesn't play the defense that Convey does. Despite being a rookie, he is older than Convey.

Martinez 3/9 - classic case of how statistics lie. This guy is a dribbling machine, but isn't a good crosser, plays no defense and is probably the 4th most creative player on his team. He does well 1v1, but most of his statistics have been the result of fine finishing by Kreis. Now that Kreis has hit a slow spell, Chivas' assists have dried up.

Vaca 1/7 - plays right wing and is probably fairly comparable to Convey as Joselito is a great young attacking talent. He is already wearing the #10 for Bolivia, so we're not the only ones that think he's a great young midfielder. He played only one or two games on the left wing--which isn't his position--but he did poorly in each game. Again, his numbers are for assists, and they correspond to the hot streaks of his finishing forwards such as Kreis.

Cien 2/7 - yet another central attacking midfielder, and his play has been poor this season, despite the assists. Ruiz has been the best finisher in MLS and he's been taking crap service and turning it into gold.

Novac 2/4 - actually his name is Nowak, but it is pronounced the way you spelled it. He is the former #10 of Poland and has always played central attacking midfielder. Chicago regularly lists him as the best player on their team.

Valderama 1/ 14 - the former South American player of the year and possibly the best ever Columbian soccer player, El Pibe's vision, quick one-touch passing and deadly accuracy continues to make him one of the most dangerous passers in MLS. But, he has never played any defense.

OK, so Sormun's list consists of the following positions: 6 of the 9 other teams' central attacking midfielders in the league (you left out Perez, Pareja and whomever is playing for the Revolution this week - Chacon?). Interesting. All of the central attackers you named are making the league maximum of 265k, while Convey is probably making about 75k. Nice comparison, but not appropriate.

Sormun also included 3 right wingers, which are a heck of a lot easier to find than left wingers.

Of your list of 12, you only included 3 left wingers, 2 of which are the weakest players on the list--Davis, Martinez and Henderson. Obviously Chris Henderson, who has played a great deal at forward this season that helps pad his goals numbers, is a superior player to Convey. Frankly, he's the only left winger you mentioned that is.

-Tron

 

Tron's Left Winger List

Tron's List:
DaMarcus Beasley - Here is a left winger that almost everyone agrees is world class. His statistics are not superior to Convey's. Maybe it's not all about statistics? IMHO, his play has been better than Convey's early in the season, but in the second half Convey's has been better, and all in all they're not too dissimilar.

Simon Elliott - best left winger in MLS, but really he plays an Hmid role rather than winger. His defense is exceptional, but he's a central defender. His long passing is exquisite, his shot good and his leadership is pristine. Better than Convey, but is an SI and makes more than double what Convey makes, possibly 3 times as much.

John Harkes/Eric Denton/etc. - the Crew have no left midfielder so they play a variety of players out of position there. I'd wager that the Crew would admit that Convey is superior to any left winger they have, and that a Convey type player is one of their main acquisition targets for next season along with Central defense.

Ted Chronopolous - formerly the starting left winger for the Revolution is now the starting left winger for the Metros. He's not in Convey's league. Brad Davis will take that position next season, but right now Davis cannot play the required defense.

Winston Griffiths - the much travelled Griffiths wasn't good enough at left wing for the Burn, the Metros and now plays for the Revs. He's not as good as Convey there either.

Ramiro Corrales/Manny Lagos - while Lagos was awesome last season, injuries have derailed him this season and he's not been as effective as Convey. Corrales has shown quite well, but is inconsistent.

Eric Quill/Stephen Armstrong - Quill is the starter and hasn't done so well. Has had injuries that compounded his woes. Armstrong wasn't as good as Convey last season and was traded, but has had some very good offensive moments. But, he's an SI and more expensive than Convey.

Henderson - previously discussed.

Martinez - previously discussed.

I think these players are more apt comparison's because they play the same position Convey plays. DaMarcus Beasley and Brad Davis are probably the only real good comparisons.

When you look at the numbers for left wingers, or for wingers in general, you don't see too many goals scored while their playing as wingers. Convey's goal total is just fine for that position. What you expect to see is 1) assists, 2) defense, and 3) possession, in no particular order. The assists numbers are down mainly because this season DC United is one of, if not THE, worst finishing team in the history of MLS. Last year we finished fine, and Convey's assist totals were very high, and per minute were one of the top few in MLS--including central midfielders.

KC's assist numbers went up dramaticly when the got Fabbro and Simuntenkov. That's when they started winning too. I think our situation is similar to KC's, but that we have more talent.

-Tron

 

Just to update Tron, Chronopolus rarely if ever plays on the left wing for the Metros. He's been the left defender. Davis has been the starting left wing, and when Davis doesn't start, OZ simply doesn't play with a left wing midfielder.

JMac

 

You have co-workers who follow MLS? Oh man, how I envy you.

On Friday my boss asked me if you're allowed to kick the ball over the head of a player in soccer...sigh.

 

Re: Sormuns Apples to Oranges List

I know, I know it is comparing apples and oranges but, it was not my ideea.I was just replaying to Ursula's post, who sugessted the list of players to compare with. Never the less, I am not as bias as you might think I am.But, despite the lack of talented strikers and despite the poor performance of the other midfielders, he was one of the players who couldn't surpass his direct opponent,the left defender.

I suggest to review the tapes and wach closelly Convey' s performance on the wing, when he was one on one with good oportunities to breack through into the penalty area.
Believe or not, I do not blame him, for his performance, only .Mostly, I am angry with him for the oportunities that he had missed, I blame him for what he should or could have done to pass the defenders. He had, so many times, "lemon" defenders opposing him. He should have, at least 10 goals, under his belt, only, by succesfully dribbling one defender.He didn't do it !! He had me climbing the walls by loosing so many golden oportunities to penetrate into the penalty area.

No, I am not resentfull for his lack of talent and physical qualities but, I am really angry about the many occasions he lost to make a difference and he didn't.That is all !! May be some of you do not notice when a good oportunity arises.But, me I was yelling, screaming ,jummping,crying when he let a good chance to go by. May be some of you do not get the" aprehension" of a playing moment but, people like me, do get the sensation that some diffrent playing could have bring instant success.There is, almost, a physical pain in this frustration, that I was feeling,when he missed the oportunity.

I guess, for some of you, this may sound "sanscrit" but, I want you to believe that "soccer waching " can be dangerous for someone's health, like me, who has a strange connection with soccer.
Convey was my bitter pill every single game.
I had enough of his mediocrity, I want somebody new, exciting, good on the left wing!!

Ray,please cut the pain !! Give me a sweet pill next season !!!

 

I was gonna bring my "Release The Hounds" poster to remind Ray of comments earlier this season. But alas....Our dogs don't hunt.

 

That's key. I've played central midfielder and I see no way that Convey's ready to take that role. You have to understand just how compliacated that position is. When you are in the middle, there are all kinds of options as far as what you do:

-Do you go get the ball, or don't you
-When you get the ball, who do you pass to (there are 9 other guys you can pass to) or do you dribble, and if you pass where and to whom
-What kind of chemistry are you building with your teammates, ALL of whom depend on you for distribution
-You must be able to hold the ball, but at the same time you must be able to quickly counterattack
-You must recognize the strengths and weaknesses of all your players and your distribution must maximize your team's potential
-You must know the other team, including how to surprise them so you can get open attacks
-Physical skills like pinpoint passing, holding the ball, long passing
-You must recognize where everyone is on the field at all times, like eyes in the back of your head
-etc.

I can't tell you enough how complicated that central midfielder position is, and I wasn't on the pro level. It requires a soccer brain, which unfortunately I developed and am therefore chained to watching soccer and being on this board.

Seriously Convey is not ready to play central midfielder. He doesn't have the mental or the physical makeup yet. He plays in a certain area, and that's it. Not enough vision, surprise, long passing.

However, Convey plays a position that's hard to fill as Tron said-left wing

I would keep Convey, since he's only 20 or so and improving, but he would come off the bench. In say 2 years time, he'll develop to the point where I would make him a starter. I think that's a great offer for a 20 year old. If he was unwilling to accept that role, I'd trade him if I got a great offer for him. If I don't get a great offer, I'd be more than happy to keep him and develop him.

 

So what if we actually win this game? Then we're only 6 points behind the Metros with another game against them in 2 days. Supposing we beat them again, we are 3 back and have a shorthanded and struggling Dallas to face at home while the Metrostars have to travel to a blistering hot New England side also playing for their lives.

It sure would be sweet to steal the final playoff spot from the Scum on the last day of the season, wouldn't it?

If Ray finally realizes to go with 2 or maybe even 3 up top on the Road, we could pull out our first road win of the season, and then have 2 in a row at home where we haven't been THAT bad.

It's Tuesday. My usual ridiculous optimism has returned right on time.

 

Like Lassiter?