Official 2021 Nadeshiko Japan Thread [R] - なでしこジャパン(英語スレッド)

Discussion in 'Japan' started by blissett, Jan 1, 2021.

  1. Lechus7

    Lechus7 Member+

    Aug 31, 2011
    Wroclaw
    Disaster? o_O
    Disaster package indeed is needed but in US camp :laugh:

    I don't see any disaster here...

    JPNvCAN.jpg

    Canada scored first and played defense for much of the game, keeping the ball for long times (opponent can't score when you have the ball) but attacking with small number of players to be any real danger and creating chances mostly from counter or from hopeful cross into box. Even when they entered JPN box, ideas were short. Not much creativity came from their passing game.

    JPN one goal and missed PK plus some entries into the box
    CAN one goal and one half-chance plus some crosses into box

    Fair result but ultimately neither team strategy paid off.
     
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  2. pierre bezukhov

    AC Milan
    Japan
    Mar 7, 2018
    Japan
    Judging by everybody's reactions I was lucky to have to work late tonight meaning I was unable to watch the game. I am sure it was not as bad as you are all saying.

    Also remember how poorly they started against Argentina at the World cup and Canada are a much better opponent. They got the draw that is what is important.

    I obviously have not seen the match, so I can only imagine what might have happened, but looking at the starting formation I have a rough idea.

    Takakura persisted with Nakajima in central midfield and pushed Shiokoshi to the right like the Australian game. Shiokoshi should be playing on the left in my opinion, but that would mean Takakura would have to move Hasegawa, and that is not going to happen. Shiokoshi has been at her best on the left for Urawa, so why push her out to the right, especially when you have Nakajima.

    I imagine Nakajima played alright because she plays her guts out, but if she is one of the top two central midfielders in all of Japan right now then I must be a very poor judge of talent. If they are not going to start Sugita then put Hayashi in there. Japan is stacked with great central midfielders, but Takakura has taken three to these games.

    Strange that they put Kitamura on the left, or does she often play there? Maybe she wanted to rest Miyagawa?

    As for the forwards I would not mind seeing Hasegawa play as a support striker alongside Iwabuchi. I am not sure it would work, but it could be interesting. I just want three in midfield.

    I am always have low expectations going into tournaments, but once they I am always optimistic. Under Takakura Nadeshiko take a little time to get going.

    Where can I watch a replay of this game?
     
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  3. Ponde_Ringu

    Ponde_Ringu Member

    May 17, 2021
    #1653 Ponde_Ringu, Jul 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021

    Sameshima must've been frustrated watching that game. I mean GB are much scarier on the right and if that's how we're gonna defend against them the game won't be worth watching. Takakura is probably regretting her choice to leave Sameshima out of the squad based on a few bad performances in pre season.

    As horrible as she was today. I'm pretty sure she would've scored that penalty. She has a good record.Though I AM NOT saying she deserves a starting spot in this team.

    I'm sure no one here thinks Miura is bad. She's a reliable defensive-minded midfielder that just lacks a little bit of creativity in attack. She has to be paired with someone like Sugita. Which is frustrating because it's what we used to do and it worked but for some reason they just don't do it anymore.



    The fact that they made Iwabuchi play 90minutes this game just to get 1 point is enough to have me concerned. Everything they did was almost unwatchable today. Defence, Attack or just simply keeping possession. It looked like we were playing with 7 players on the field the entire game.
     
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  4. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    It seems to me that she played on the left at U-20 WWC 2018 (if I remember well).
     
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  5. pierre bezukhov

    AC Milan
    Japan
    Mar 7, 2018
    Japan
    I agree with you.

    She is actually quite fast. Her and Tanaka have scored a lot of goals domestically, so it kind of makes sense that they get chosen. But when they play against good opposition they do seem to struggle to make an impact. As I said elsewhere I would like to see Hasegawa playing up front with Iwabuchi.

    Really Kumagai should be taking all penalties.

    I am now going to read about the Americans. There are going to be some very angry people over there! Getting the popcorn ready.
     
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  6. unepommekun

    unepommekun Member+

    Beleza
    Japan
    Mar 26, 2018
     
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  7. pierre bezukhov

    AC Milan
    Japan
    Mar 7, 2018
    Japan
    Why thank you.
     
  8. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    It's called Schadenfreude: I am reveling in it since this morning. :cool:
     
  9. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Apart from any other consideration, I've got the feeling that these days we tend to waste most of our set pieces, especially corner kicks (but also including penalty kicks, as we've seen today).

    Back then, at the time of the Miyama's and Sawa's generation, you could always hope that Japan would have scored from set piece: now it looks like we're missing both good specialists and sound schemes.
     
  10. datschge

    datschge Member+

    Feb 9, 2014
    Germany
    Had to leave around 75th min, so kinda relived to hear Nadeshiko still managed to equalize. Quick impressions:
    • Nadeshiko presses well, they just only do it deep in their own half as a last ditch defense. Why?
    • After winning the ball in such presses it too often gets shot forward without any plan, regularly losing it again right away, allowing the opponent to dictate the play. Why not first secure the ball and ensure the pass recipient is in a free space? Nadeshiko's passing ability should be good enough to not have to rely on a flat variant of hoofing football...
    • Nakajima tracked Sinclair. She was far from getting ahead of her first to the ball on both the shot on post and the goal after rebound. Why track her at all if the worry isn't getting in between her and your own goal?
    • Iwabuchi is Japan's lifeline. Maybe support her better if that's the only offensive part that actually works? Playing Hasegawa alongside her may be a good idea (and a roundabout way for Takakura to allow a three women midfield, so fat chance unfortunately...).
    The comparison of Takakura with Gareth Southgate works on so many levels. Let's hope the success is also comparable...
     
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  11. unepommekun

    unepommekun Member+

    Beleza
    Japan
    Mar 26, 2018
    My choice of the starting lineup vs GB:
    GK Yamashita
    DF Shimizu Kumagai Minami ?
    MF Hasegawa Miura Sugita Endo
    FW Iwabuchi Tanaka
     
  12. Essex

    Essex Member

    Jul 5, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Well, I think I have watched only 50% of the match due to Eurosport's atrocious coverage, but judging from the comments here, the other 50% were probably not much better. Overall, very shaky start, shall I say? I liked bits of play and passing, but in the end that performance made me actually worry about the chances of progressing, agreeing with some of the posts here post-match. It also showed how times have changed: A few years ago Japan would have comfortably dispatched Canada.

    Such a great goal by Iwabuchi, she was our lifesaver. I hope the team (and the manager) get themselves together for the other matches!

    Please don't reopen old wounds :cry: :ROFLMAO:
    But apparently there is some similarity (again only by judging from the posts here)? A manager who is tactically stubborn? Who does not make use of the country's depth? Actually, Southgate's decisions were hugely unpopular during the tournament, but he was proven right most of the time and got the results, with the notable and fatal exception of the final. Let's hope Takakura can guide the team to reach its potential in these Olympics.


    Damn right, that was a super penalty! Was hugely impressed by him having the balls and ability to pull it off. He had a great tournament!
     
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  13. Kakeru

    Kakeru Member+

    Manchester United
    Japan
    Feb 22, 2016
    Montréal, QC, Canada
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I've been paying more attention on Canada since the days when John Herdman was the manager (he's doing a stellar job with the men's team right now). His teams would have been far more insisting and more organized on the attack if he was still there, and I'm not sure that Takakura's current team would have tied the game against any of Herdman's squads (2012 and 2016 bronze medallists BTW). I think the current Nadeshiko Japan are lucky that the Canadian midfield is not as creative nor organized as in the past. In any case, I am worried ahead of the clash against Great Britain.

    I wish I didn't have to, but Takakura has driven me mad so many times that I had to bring the comparison because I have the same feeling deep in my guts. Yeah, I have a feeling that Takakura just doesn't know 1) how to be more flexible tactically nor 2) how to use the country's full depth. I'm not putting her as low as Raymond Doménech or Frank de Boer just yet, but she may go there if things do not improve soon.

    It's about training and making the effort. That kind of shot leaves no chance to any goalkeeper when it is mastered to perfection.
     
  14. pierre bezukhov

    AC Milan
    Japan
    Mar 7, 2018
    Japan
    Hasegawa made the pass for the goal. Why she was over that side of the pitch is anybody's guess, but thankfully she was.

    Hasegawa is a player that needs space to be effective, which is why she is finding it more and more difficult to play against good teams.

    GK Yamashita (no brainer)
    DF Shimizu Kumagai Takarada Miyagawa
    MF Nakajima Miura Sugita Shiokoshi
    FW Iwabuchi Hasegawa

    Hasegawa running in between defensive lines could be interesting. Also she is not needed to track back as much, but she can still put pressure on defenders.

    I figure they are going to lose against GB, so why not try something a little different.
     
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  15. Ponde_Ringu

    Ponde_Ringu Member

    May 17, 2021
    GK Yamashita (no brainer)
    DF Shimizu Kumagai Minami Kitamura
    MF Nakajima Miura Sugita Hasegawa
    FW Iwabuchi Tanaka
    (Shiokoshi and Endo come on in half time as subs)

    I feel like this is the closest the line up can get to the 2019 squad barring Sugasawa not starting. I just fail to understand why Takakura stopped doing things that the team was able to execute well a few years back. A midfield with Miura and Sugita worked well. High pressing in the Netherlands game was great. Judging from the matches this year, we just decided not to do those things anymore.

    Sawa and Ando give their thoughts about the game in these articles. Quick translations.

    Sawa says it looks like the team doesn't really have any plans in either Offense or Defense. Even says that it doesn't look like everyone in the team wants to win no matter what. She did congradulate Iwabuchi on the goal and expressed her joy of watching her play as a #10.

    https://www.nikkansports.com/olympic/tokyo2020/soccer/news/202107210001197.html

    Ando with similar comments, specificaly criticizing the defending. Says the midfielders today have to do better with their defending and that the team as a whole isn't aggressive enough when the opponent has possession. Winning the ball by applying pressure and using that momentum in attack used to be Nadeshiko's identity but somehow that's not true anymore.

    https://www.nikkansports.com/olympic/tokyo2020/soccer/news/202107210001155.html

    It may sound harsh but pretty on point crticism I think.
     
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  16. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Well, it goes to show that our team isn't much more than the Hasegawa-Iwabuchi connection. These two players are, along with Kumagai, our only real "star-players" on the international level and are the ones that can make things work.

    We'll probably end having to play them in every game of these Olympics (demanding task, but on the other hand I am afraid it could actually be less games than we could have initially expected).

    @pierre bezukhov's idea of using Hasegawa alongside Iwabuchi is not so bad, given the quite disappointing level of most of the other FWs that Takakura decided to bring. It would be an offensive duo that's quite on the light side (the shorter and lighter FW duo in history? :laugh:) but on the other hand it's not like our attack strategy as a team was ever based on physicality.

    They were World Champions and Olympic medalists and they know what they're saying. Of course, every team have their critics, after all it's media's job to do that, and, as it always happen, eventual winning teams can shrug off this criticism after the event.

    But I guess Sawa's and Ando's observations were spot-on; in particular as Homare says:

     
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  17. pierre bezukhov

    AC Milan
    Japan
    Mar 7, 2018
    Japan
    Sawa also mentioned how tepid the attack was and how easy it was for Canada to defend against it, especially most of the crosses. It seemed the same against Australia to be honest.

    I find it interesting how both of them seem to intimate that a lot of the impetus for the team needs to come from the centre of the pitch in attack and midfield. Sawa also wrote that goals should be coming more from in front of goal and with quick one-touch passes.

    It seems to me as if they are saying Nadeshiko should play to their strengths - work rate and technical ability.

    Good, quick passing for me is the key for Nadeshiko.
     
  18. #5nadeshikofan

    #5nadeshikofan Member+

    May 26, 2012
    Plymouth, Michigan, USA
    Club:
    Vegalta Sendai
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    That is what I am missing lately. Takakura seems to have abandoned one of the strength of Nadeshiko in the name of a more modern(?) style of football. Rotating players through different positions, playing long passes and so on only works if the players are able to do that. Forcing that on players who are not used to it from day to day club experience will fail. That begs the question why she was so successful with the youth teams. Her successes their recommended her for the a NT - or so I thought.
     
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  19. Manchester Nadeshiko

    NTV Beleza
    Japan
    Mar 26, 2017
    U.K.
    #1669 Manchester Nadeshiko, Jul 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
    This is not sour grapes

    Lechus...could you please look at yesterday's penalty with your super duper technology

    (If a goalkeeper is jumping up and down her foot cannot possibly be on or behind the line all of the time so where where Labbes feet when the ball was struck...)I've looked at it a dozen times....I have my doubts

    GB v Chile had a few lengthy interuptions while video ref looked at this or that Why wasn't this one looked at by video ref?

    Edit....on her line or not it was still a rubbish penalty kick
     
  20. Bop N Cool

    Bop N Cool Member

    Mar 18, 2012
    U.S.A.
    Club:
    Vegalta Sendai
    Hi, late to the party. As for womens soccer in general, what’s the percentage of teams with a possession lower than 40% (and 45% separately) having won the game? Something like 8%/20%? Anyway, it was the first game.
     
  21. pierre bezukhov

    AC Milan
    Japan
    Mar 7, 2018
    Japan
    I do not want to be too critical yet, because they still have two matches in the group. But yeah at times Nadeshiko's football can look pretty bad and she has to take a lot of the blame for that.

    Rotating players is not such a bad thing - especially if you have the depth - but making people play out of their preferred positions is not ideal. Good teams will exploit your weaknesses.

    Look at the mighty USA against Sweden and their makeshift left back Crystal Dunn. She was torn apart by Sweden and she is a fantastic player, but she does not play as a left back for her club team. Against Mexico she looks like a million bucks, but against good opposition she looks ordinary. How do you think she will go against GB?

    But for me Takakura has let her biases cloud her judgement. Now she seems fixated on young players at the expense of more senior players. But at the last world cup she took two senior players who did not play (Utsugi and Sakaguchi). Maybe that experience spooked her? She is quite perplexing.

    Another example would be Naomoto. When she was in Germany she was injured a lot and barely played, yet she would get called up to play for Nadeshiko. Now she is actually playing regularly and well for Urawa, but does not get a look in. It is strange.

    I do not want to go on a rant yet, because Nadeshiko may turn it around yet.

    Though I do think Hayashi might be called up to play against GB.
     
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  22. Lechus7

    Lechus7 Member+

    Aug 31, 2011
    Wroclaw
    #1672 Lechus7, Jul 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
    Overall possesion doesn't mean much theese days. What counts is numer of entries into final third and into opponent box area.

    Stats show that Japan was actually much more effective side than Canada:
    Japan had 41% possesion - 29 minutes of actual playing time and they managed to make 7 shots (3 on goal), 1 Penalty Kick and 5 Corner Kicks.
    Canada had 59% possesion - 41 minutes of actual playing time and they managed to make 6 shots (only 1 on goal) and 5 Corner Kicks.

    90% off goals in football nowadays is scored from inside penalty box.

    In match vs. Australia, Nadeshiko allowed for opponent wingers to roam relatively free in the side sectors, chosing rather to overcrowd their own penalty box before the cross or pass came from the wing... and it worked well. Australia made number of such crosses but had only 1 shot on goal.

    With one exception it was the same case with Canada.

    Now let's look on Canada's goal. What's happen? Cross from the side sector but... Minami was drag out from box central area - you can see her hesitancy - she's looking back, either checking if someone will cover her position or... is she heard warning "don't leave your position"?. She's in two minds thus she doesn't even charge the cross proper. One player is missing now inside box to defend, others have to strech to cover bigger space - which allow Sinclair for two bites at shooting.

    Nadeshiko didn't made this error again in rest of the game. You can remember later on ie. Rose entering JPN box from the side with ease coupe of times but actually having no target to play inside and no good angle to shoot either.

    Other thing, this transitional overcrowding roughly 20m x 20m area in front of the goal has other merits. Neither Australia nor Canada managed to make a one successful through ball inside Japan box.
     
  23. Lechus7

    Lechus7 Member+

    Aug 31, 2011
    Wroclaw
    yeah I did also noticed it and checked right after the game but looks like Labbe stayed with one foot on the line. (I don't think she knew much about it though - for one she was hurt, and two she was probably gambling on it).
     
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  24. Lechus7

    Lechus7 Member+

    Aug 31, 2011
    Wroclaw
    #1674 Lechus7, Jul 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
    Seem quite astounding to me all this negativity concerning Japan chances. o_O
    Olympic Games tournament most important games are 4th, 5th and 6th.
    Those are must win.

    In Rio 2016 ultimate finalist Germay and Sweden were able to beat only Zimbabwe and South Africa during group phase - finishing both as runner-ups in their respective groups with only 4 points.

    Food for thought. ;)

    I'm recording all the games (with eng commentary - Eurosport) so if you're intresting in watching any particular match gimme a shout and I'll drop it on google drive and provide the link. (no NED and AUS match as yet, will have'em tomorrow)
     
  25. Bop N Cool

    Bop N Cool Member

    Mar 18, 2012
    U.S.A.
    Club:
    Vegalta Sendai
    #1675 Bop N Cool, Jul 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
    Yes, (only) relative to their possession, they played efficiently. Plus Canada had 2 offsides. I hope they will improve eventually. The stats you provided were very helpful. I totally missed the match with Australia. I will look for a video.
     
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