Re: Xerox Cup 2008 Here is the play, and also the explanation of why they didnt show a replay. Even from this terrible angle (the only time it got showed was live) you can see that it wasnt a foul. Oiwa clearly kicks the ball away with his left foot before even making contact with Kubo. And when the two do make contact it is Kubo kicking Oiwa in the right knee and simultaneously pushing him in the back. Just watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-_f6zAaq7w I suppose you could argue that there was a little bit of contact between Kubo and Aoki, who was playing the ball but nevertheless was backpedaling, and sometimes referees see that and think it is obstruction. But if thats the case, why did Oiwa get the yellow, and not Aoki? From even this angle (and again, its a lousy angle to see the contact clearly), there should be no question whatsoever that Oiwa cleared the ball cleanly before Kubo was anywhere NEAR the ball. In the second, ultra-slow replay, you can see that ALL of the contact -- not only between Kubo and Oiwa but also between Kubo and Aoki -- takes place after the ball is already flying off into touch. So within the space of 30 seconds Iemoto ignores a PK shout at one end . . . (Yes, it was incidental contact and refs ignore that all the time. But it WAS contact in the penalty area that knocked a Kashima player down. And Stoyanov couldnt even begin to suggest he was playing the ball) ... and then awards a penalty at the other end in which both Kashima players were playing the ball, Kubo was off-balance due to his own wild lunge, and the only contact between Kubo and Oiwa was between Kubo's foot and Oiwa's kneecap, and Kubo's hand and Oiwa's back.
Re: Xerox Cup 2008 I honestly think it is impossible to judge from this angle. What you see is one Sanfrecce player on the right complaining, and another (left) running back as if nothing has happened...
Re: Official 2008 J1 Thread [R] You can bury your head in the sand all you want but the ref was terrible.
Re: Xerox Cup 2008 Iwamasa was just stupid at this game. the red card was more than right. why he stole the ball from kidera when he was already yellowed
Re: Xerox Cup 2008 Ok, I believe we all agree the ref sucked. What we are trying to determine here is: 1 - Was he a bad ref ? or 2 - Was he a bad AND corrupted ref? As Matsu pointed out, some calls were highly suspicious; however, as somebody else wrote, to combine a 2-2 it might take more than a ref...
Re: Xerox Cup 2008 Goru- has pretty much summed it up. And at the end of the day, based on things like videos, logical discussions and debates there is no way anyone can say whether or not the ref was just an idiot or was a fixed ref. The only thing that makes this any different from all the similar situations in the past was that THIS TIME, some people knew the score in advance (you can see the proof on my message board). Now it LOOKS like the reason I was told the score was that I have provided tips to various people in the past, and the person who told me must have assumed I would bet on the game myself, and then keep my mouth shut. The reason that HE knew is impossible to know, but I have to assume it was because he knew that the match was fixed. Well, the discussion cant go anywhere unless someone -- whether its FIFA or the AFC or the JFA or the J.League or some major newspaper or a police agency or SOMEONE -- will take the time to see if anyone bet on that exact score (and if so, who.) Unless someone is willing to do that, then we are just wasting our time discussing it. Ive done just about everything I can possibly do, and nobody wants to listen. Unless someone else can figure out a way to force someone to investigate, then this topic is played out.
Re: Xerox Cup 2008 Let's see this email you have!!!! You've talked about it, but I'd personally like to see it! Do you still have it? ps. anyone else see that Iemoto has basically been suspended indefinitely? They worded it very carefully as a "cool down time" so that the dust can settle and then went on to back up some of his decisions and then even criticized him for not giving out more yellow cards and sooner...uhhhhh...huh!?!?!
Re: Xerox Cup 2008 Who said I had an e-mail? I said he TOLD me. The proof is on my message board, as Ive already said repeatedly.
Re: Xerox Cup 2008 Sorry, i just recalled that you said you had an email from him. My bad. So in that case there is no hard core concrete eveidence. What basically amounts to, in an investigation, as hearsay. If he contacted you by phone, can you trace it, or was it just a conversation?
Re: Xerox Cup 2008 As I said before, the only thing that will accomplish anything at this point is to investigate if there were any bets on that result. That is how they caught the match fixers in Europe, and that is about as concrete an evidence as anyone could ask for. Unless I can convince someone to investigate (ie someone with enough authority to investigate betting information), theres nothing more that I, or anyone, can do. That is why I asked everyone to write to FIFA and the AFC in the first place.
Re: Xerox Cup 2008 Like I said, did you go the local police? I know that Japanese police take these things seriously, if you were to able to convince them.
Re: Xerox Cup 2008 Maybe that is true in Tokyo but I live in a tiny town in the middle of nowhere. The local yakuza syndicate office (...and everyone in town knows who works there) is three buildings down from the town offices. I have no doubt that the cops and the crooks probably go out drinking together every friday. The local joke is that the shiyakusho and the shi- yakuza have the same phone number. Why do you think Im not making a much bigger noise about this on Japanese-language sites? The last thing I need is trouble from my neighbours. Dont misunderstand. In Japan the yakuza is not totally organized crime (especially in small towns). Lots of these guys are very friendly and well known people in the community (how do you think I got to know one?) Its just that theres no way I can try to pursue this issue myself. I need to convince someone from outside my town to investigate.
Re: Xerox Cup 2008 Alright Mats then it's up to you. Snuggle up good and close to your yakuza buddies and convince them to pay the refs to be fair. The fate of the J League is in your hands. Don't let us down.
Re: Xerox Cup 2008 I was at the game sitting in the Antlers end and it was probably the strangest match I've seen in my 30+ years of watching soccer. Two ejections, two goals disallowed offside and three retaken penalties, two in the shootout, was incredible. Now I find it hard to believe a match could be fixed to finish specifically 2-2 in PK's. You would have to somehow arrange both Kashima goals and Sato's late header to tie it and send it to penalties. No offense, but that's a little far fetched. Looking at the highlights, the Kashima keeper did leave his line early. Yeah, you don't usually see it called so strictly, but it's not like it hadn't already been an issue earlier in the game. And it wasn't anywhere near a hundred Kashima supporters storming over the barricades after the match. I have a photo I took of the incident as it was happening and I number it more like a couple of dozen.