Off Topic, Coach McGuirk, help! Rugby World Cup

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by 442, Oct 18, 2003.

  1. 442

    442 Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Secret ArseAm HQ

    So I'm watching the Rugby World Cup. I just don't get this sport. Why do the players constantly just grab the ball and slam into the defense? I almost never see a guy fake one way then go the other, or spin... how come they never dummy a pass with the first guy looking like he'll catch it, then he lets it go to a guy behind him? How come no reverses like in American football?

    I watch this and think, "Barry Sanders would score everytime he touched the ball."

    And why so much kicking the ball to the opponents? Does the US suck, or do you want to keep kicking it out of bounds? Help!
  2. ArsenalTexan3

    ArsenalTexan3 Member

    Sep 24, 2002
    Arsenal FC
    Well I might not be Coach, but maybe I can help.

    1. Most of the players you see getting the ball and running into ther other team is the forwards(#s 1-9). They are the ones who do all the dirty work(getting forward, most of the tackling, etc...).

    2. No dummy passes because
    -ball can't be passed forward
    -even if you tried to dummy pass, more than likely they will get hit and taken to the ground.

    3. Barry Sanders wouldn't score every time. Partly because there is no blocking and even if a player is trying to get back and his teammate tries to go around him, there is usually a penalty called for obstruction.

    4. Kicking the ball to the opponent is like clearence in soccer. Usually a team will kick it so far back where there are only 2 people on the same team and when you have 15 other people running trying to kill you, it is best to clear it and kick it as down as you can.

    5. Kicking out can be a few things. One being if there is a penalty, they allow it to be kicked to see where the line out is going to be. In other words, if you can kick it to where the ball crosses the out of bounds line near the goal line, it is a good thing.
    Sometimes they are just trying to clear it as far away from their end as possible. Others it is just a real bad kick.

    So to answer your question with kicking, depends on the situation.

    6. Does the USA suck? This is the easiest one of all your questions-YES! There are alot of reasons why, but one of the main factors is it has caught on like say ice hockey in Dallas. Sure there are rugby unions in each state, but most of the people who I played with and against are 27+ in age. Like soccer, once it progresses, the USA will get better. But don't worry, we are the Arsenal Youth Squad. :) Have lots of protental to do very good. Just need to get alot of training for the guys and in 10 yrs time, we can be winning more than 1 game(if they get that).

    I'm sure you're now asking who are the best teams and here they are in no real order: South Africa, England, New Zealand, Austrilia, France, Ireland, and Argentinia. There are other teams like Scotland, Wales, Tonga, Fijis, and Samao who have a strong tradition of rugby, but can't seem to get over a hump or are ont he decline. They will usually give the stronger teams a fight before they break down or they will just kill the minnows(like Scotland did to USA a year ago).

    Hope this helps.
  3. Random

    Random New Member

    May 20, 2002
    N4 again
    I'm not Coach either, but I was put in the oval ball game at school due to being a big lad, and picked some of it up.

    Dummies do happen, just watch and you'll see them.

    You're probably seeing less of it because you don't have downs - making that specific extra yard of territory before you're brought down isn't as important (though you'll see loads of fakes to pass). And a little shimmy will probably only get you that with ten big lads standing around to take you down. Getting a break, or an overlap will get you a try (or at least a lot of territory, from which you might make a drop goal or get a penalty kick).

    The offside rule has a big effect in how the game is played too. When a set-piece play like a scrum, ruck or maul is going on, you can't just run around the mass of players to grab the ball from the side or behind, you have to stop the group of opposition players, or tear the ball off them in the middle of it all.
    A good kick can make a lot of territory, and if you're under pressure could well be your only way to get the ball the hell away from your goal line.

    Also, if you can kick to touch, it goes to a line out (two rows of players, ball thrown between). From there you can gain field position by either driving forward with the big guys (forwards) or getting it out to the fast, tricky backs.

    Don't worry too much about the details though. The speed and violence can be fun, but it's just egg-chasing in the end.

    Nearly forgot - in rugby, you have to touch down to score a try, but in American football you don't have to touch down to score a touchdown. Never mind...
  4. jegerpenge

    jegerpenge New Member

    Jan 18, 2003
    Lake Charles, LA
    Re: Re: Off Topic, Coach McGuirk, help! Rugby World Cup

    couldn't have said it better myself
  5. idiparker

    idiparker Member

    Jul 23, 2000
    Hong Kong
    Dummy passes, the Eagles, and other things

    1) The lack of blocking makes the game very difficult to understand to many Americans, but if you watch some really good teams (like the NZ All Blacks) you'll see a bit of "run throughs" after they pass the ball that have the effect of blocking (more of like a screen).

    2) Dummies happen quite often. Somtimes a well executed move looks like the "three man weave' we all practiced as kids in youth basketball.

    3) The US is getting better, but has some "management" problems to say the least. USA Rugby isn't quite like US Soccer Federation, and despite the fact that we have five Americans in the top division in England (I think it is five) the US Eagles don't really gel as there is some strangeness in the selection process. Sometimes it seems like the US team is just anyone left over from Aspen who happens to be around that week.

    4) Well executed rugby can be very fun to watch. I especially enjoy watching the All Blacks and urge you to keep at it. It'll get much more interesting as the cup moves forward.

    If you are really interested, there is a PS2 game from EA Sports (I think it's called Rugby 2004) that I've actually seen used to teach college players who've never seen the game before. The game is pretty realistic as far as strategy (rucks, mauls, scrums, lineouts, etc) and the format (video game) is something most college kids understand.
  6. 442

    442 Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Secret ArseAm HQ
    I wasn't knocking the sport by the way, I think it's very interesting. Can't imagine why it wouldn't be bigger here in the states. Plenty of scoring, action and guys slamming into each other.

    I have almost no knowledge of the rules of the game, but it's fun trying to figure it out.

    Andrew, funny you mention the game, I downloaded a demo of it from EA tonight.

    I'm looking forward to watching more.
  7. michaec

    michaec Member

    May 24, 2001
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    If you really want to know the laws of the game, follow the link:

    To be honest, even for someone like me who knows the laws having played a lot of rugby when I was younger, reading these was pretty confusing. I'm sure you'd be better off picking most of them up as you go.

    I agree with idiparker, when the competition reaches the quarter-finals and beyond it should be much more interesting as it should just be the better nations playing. Even when it's your team putting 80 points on the opposition it can be a bit boring. If you can fiund a match between the nations listed by ArsenalTexan in the pool games they should be good. I think Ireland are playing Australia next week.
  8. ArsenalTexan3

    ArsenalTexan3 Member

    Sep 24, 2002
    Arsenal FC

    Sometimes it is easier to learn the game by playing it. I know that after watching it and learning rugby League(slower tempo) and then switching to Union(fast paced), just being able to get in and play helped me learn it even more. I know there are a few teams in NYC so if you would like, I can get a link to the NYRU.
  9. Coach_McGuirk

    Coach_McGuirk New Member

    Apr 30, 2002
    Between the Pipes
    Geez, lose my DSL connection for a few days and I miss all the fun.

    Looks like everyone here covered the rugby questions for you, Rick, and I don't really have anything to add.

    Except ice hockey IS big in Dallas...*L*

    Watching rugby is an acquired taste, but it's a gas to play, and unlike American football, big guys like me get to handle the ball every now and again. Plus, there's beer. LOTS of beer.
  10. DallasGooner

    DallasGooner Member

    Apr 16, 2003
    Dallas, Texas
    Arsenal FC
  11. OPArsenal

    OPArsenal New Member

    Dec 17, 2002
    Jacksonville, FL
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, sir. Yes, sir, indeed. Lots of fun to play at school, even more fun to play outside of school, especially when it becomes a Guiness-soaked brawl for the ball.

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