Who are some "obscure" Yanks Abroad people would consider for a Gold Cup call-up. As we all know, the Gold Cup will be a great opportunity to get some looks at some players in the US pool who don't normally play or even see the bench in international action, I assume BB will not want to rely completely on MLS for his GC squad and some of these more obscure players who ply their trade abroad could bring some needed depth at some positions. And what I mean by obscure are people that aren't normally bandied about in USMNT conversations. Some of the names I'm bringing up aren't exactly complete unknowns and have garnered some recent attention, but in terms of guys like Clint Dempsey, Tim Howard and Oguchi Onyewu to name a few, they would be obscure. Regardless here is my list for consideration and with some reasons for each: Zak Whitbread - has garnered some attention recently with Millwall's success, but considering how the #3 CB is up in the air, this could be a great chance to look at a player who hasn't seem international action since U-20s. He normally starts for Millwall, is left-footed, and has even received some attention from Premiership sides. Most of the other CBs in the player pool are known quantities, Whitbread could be a surprise here. Definite call-up for me. Jeremiah White - has really amped up his game with AGF Aarhus this year in the Danish Superliga and seems to be a regular contributor in the attack. He can play as a winger or withdrawn forward and has some unbelievable pace. He has only received one cap in the Camp Cupcake game over a year ago, and only received cleanup minutes at that. So to get an extended look at him could be invaluable when outside of the obvious players, there is a mish-mash of players available. Another definite call-up for me. Jemal Johnson - played more earlier in the season with MK Dons, but from what I understand due to contract negotiations, has received less playing time. Is another right-footed winger who can play as a withdrawn forward who is pacey and was regularly involved in goals for the Dons. Perhaps a few months ago I would have said he should be called into the Gold Cup, but now with his lack of playing time, and Jeremiah White playing well for Aarhus, I do not know. Worthy of being in the conversation, but I am not sure if he should be called in. Should be in the debate, but misses out IMHO. Luis Robles - young goalkeeper with Kaiserlautern, got into the lineup due to injury to the regular starter and did very well in his opportunities. We all know our embarassment of riches at goalkeeper, but it seems they are some MLS keepers out of form recently, and with his emergence, and how young he is, it could be a good opportunity to get him on the bench in the GC and get an extended look at him in training. I wouldn't play him, but worthy of being in the conversation for the 3rd string spot. Marco Vidal - considering the fact this kid can play a few different positions (I'm a big fan of versatile players like this, like Spector) and has seen alot of playing time at a position we are thinnest at - left back, I would definitely call him up to see him at that spot. He battled back from his benching to become a regular starter, and he can play at left back. He's young, he's a fighter, and considering some of the other options we have at LB, I would definitely call him up.
Ives has a similar story up today: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=647200&sec=us&root=us&cc=5901
I've been meaning to post this thread for over a week now, now Ives stole my thunder LOL. I think it's a valid thread that is more easily discussed here though than in a cumbersome comments section.
The Gold Cup is a tricky venture for European based players, as participation may infringe on pre-season preparations. Unless a player is firmly entrenched in his team's plans, it's a risky venture to come to the states to play in this tournament. Because of that, I think it's going to be mostly MLS players playing in the Gold Cup.
I pretty much agree with all the picks up here. I don't think it would hurt to check Robles out at least in the camp, though I expect our 3 keepers will be Hahnemann, Pickens and the recently-Italian Dominic Cervi. No, I don't think Cervi will do any playing, but I think BB will want to get a look, especially since he's the youngest in the crop of YA keepers. Of course, there's always a chance Bradley takes a MLS keeper to South Africa, in which case I would like to see GC duty in between the sticks split between Hahnemann and Troy Perkins. Goalkeepers aside, if we're talking strictly about YAs, here are some lesser-knowns I wouldn't mind seeing: Michael Parkhurst: Made the transition from New England to Denmark very smoothly and has since firmly cemented himself into the starting 11 at the North Sealand. Despite a spot in the last Gold Cup roster and a role in the Olympics, Parkhurst has only 3 caps to his name, which I think is criminally low. Danny Szetela: Has been pretty low-key since going on loan to Brescia, but has nonetheless contributed the last two seasons to a serious player in Serie B. Since it doesn't look like he's found his home either with Brescia or Racing Santander, a solid showing at the Gold Cup could get him back to the promised land. Clarence Goodson: Made the move to second-tier IK Start last year, and played a huge part in their promotion to the Norweigan top flight. Got on the field for the first time at Camp Cupcake a year and a half ago, and has 2 caps total right now. Lee Nguyen: I know, I know. Went from "Sensation of the Future" at PSV, to "well, at least he's going somewhere where he'll actually play" at Randers, and now "What?! Vietnam?" Even had a bit of a shaky start as Vietnam's highest-paid foreign player. He is starting to come around though, with-I believe-two goals and six assists in HAGL's last four matches, all wins, moving them up to second place in the league. The more good performances Lee puts in with HAGL, the more he'll gain confidence, which is what BigSoccer detractors have always said the boy lacked. A solid Gold Cup, coupled with a V-League title might get Nguyen over the hump and back from nowhereland.
Jordan Shevchenko - I think Bradley should get ahead of the curve for once and cap this promising talent right now. Christian Shevchenko - He should cover all of his bases while he's at it.
ummm.... if Lee Nguyen gets called in, it would be a total joke. The V-league is a totally craptastic league. It's not even in the top 10 leagues in Asia. I mean, why don't we just start calling community college players because they are scoring. Nguyen is just a player that went to a big club at a young age and didn't make it. It happens all the time as these big clubs go through lots of young players expecting only just a few to make it. People really need to accept the fact that just because PSV was interested a bunch of years ago doesn't means that he is good. Want an obscure call-up? I said it in another thread, but why not Mikkel Diskerud? He's playing well in his first professional season and either starts or is the first offensive option off the bench for Staebek, the defending Norwegian champions. If some people think Marcus Tracy has earned a callup, Diskerud has just as much experience.. maybe more. I agree about Zak Whitbread. I am a Millwall fan and I would love to see him suit up. How good would he be at the international level? No idea. I just like him.
Yep. Lee Nguyen shouldn't be anywhere near the USMNT. He knew that when he signed for the V-League. Personally I feel bad for him that he is cap-tied to us. He could have become a Vietnamese Legend and probably made more money if he were eligible to play for them.
Since White and Parkhurst were already mentioned, I'll complete the Demon Deacons in Denmark trifecta and throw out Marcus Tracy as a possibility.
If we call in Lee Ngyuen we might as well call Erik Hort back in the camp. Remember him? I can't believe we're talking about a guy who plays in a league a step below the PDL. Mikkel Diskerud is an interesting choice. Last year, I had previously believed this kid had abandoned the US to play for Norway (Which is a good option considering the glut of keepers the US does have), but when you mentioned him again I read his Wikipedia and I discovered the kid has been switching back and forth playing for both Norway and the USA. Personally, a Gold Cup call up would be massive, it would cap-tie the kid and would be a great investment in the future, because outside of Luis Robles the US does not have a clear youth goalkeeper that stands out. Also, it seems by his tactics he is trying to get one of those two federations to really notice him, ala Marco Vidal. (Of course, Vidal's play as of recent genuinely gives him a right to be capped by the US, I am not sure of Diskerud's form.) My pick for an obscure callup for the Gold Cup is Ryan Guy. He plays both right wing and forward, and tears up the Eircom. Sure, the Eircom is about the level of low League One, but since we're actually wanting to call up League One players, Ryan Guy is consistently decent. By the way, I totally agree about Zak Whitbread. I am not sure if he's international Quality, but it's common knowledge that he is a huge transfer target. If Everton want him at the end of his contract, I think he may warrant a call up for the Nats.
Wow, boy was I wrong. For some reason I always thought he was a keeper. Crazy. In any case, being an attacking mid, he actually probably needs a look in the Gold Cup. Adu and Kljestan will be getting plenty of time in the Gold Cup, but I can see "Mix" getting a look off the bench in a game or two, especially if Sasha continues his (downward) run of form.
Luis Robles is an obvious one. If you're the starting GK and getting great reviews at Kaiserslautern, you're going to be called up. I don't think there's any question he'll be at the Gold Cup. In other GK related news..........Dominic Cervi just got his passport............and his signing by Celtic is imminent. There are people out there who think he's clearly very talented. I'd be surprised...........but not shocked if Bradley called him up as our 3rd GK for the Gold Cup. The other non-capped player I see as a real possibility is Arturo Alvarez. With the amount of people listed in these Gold Cup threads, one might think there are 50 roster spots available. After the obvious choices are selected, there aren't many open slots. Also keep in mind that any U-20's like Break Shea are unlikely to play in the U20 World Cup and the Gold Cup. They could of course, but to me it's unlikely. You don't want to burn the kids out. Ryan Guy? Mikkel Diskerud? Lee Nguyen? They might be good players, but no chance of making this Gold Cup roster. Marcus Tracy? Maybe, maybe. Cooper and Casey seem like obvious choices, and then there are hole slew of "maybes" like Eddie Johnson, Chris Rolfe (who looked good for Chicago last week), Robbie Findley, etc. And we know Josh Wolff is leading MLS in scoring (along with McBride). It just depends what Bob wants to do. Is Tracey more likely to get the call than somebody like Findley? I don't know. Two MLS rookies worth mentioning are Cronin and Pontius, but I think it's just too early for them. On these threads it seems people are trying to out-"obscure" each other. There is no way a guy in the Vietnamese league is being called into the Gold Cup. Hell, Kamani Hill was just signed by a Portuguese team........and I don't think he's going to make it. You need to be playing..............and at a pretty high level to earn a spot on this roster. And people underestimate the quality of MLS at times, and want to call in players from all over Europe. Ryan Guy might be good. I don't know, I've never seen him. Is he better than Eddie Gaven? Hell, is he a better right winger than Brian Mullan? What about Danny Szetela, who can play on the right. Sal Zizzo's not making this team, and he's a bench player in the Bundesliga. And we're going to call a guy up from the Irish League? I've watched plenty of the Irish League.........live actually..........and it's well below the quality of MLS. Any player in the Irish league that shows a sliver of quality is immediately snatched up by an English club (or Scottish for that matter).
For me, the three I'd choose would be Whitbread, Diskerud, and Robles. Whitbread - I know it's League 1 ball, but from what little I've been able to see of Millwall, he's a beast. He runs the back line. He looks very good in the air. He owned the most prolific goal scorer (A stretch, I know, but Beckford should be moving up no matter what Leeds do. He's a definite cut above. ) in England for two games. he's a threat on set pieces. Diskerud - Actually, have only had the opportunity to see him in highlights so not enough information to make an educated call, really. But,....every time he's been given a public opportunity to shine, he has. US call up = 3 assists. Norway call up = a goal. Staebek starting position = at least 3 goals. I get the feeling that he is going to be much better than a Norwegian 1st division player. Also, I'm very worried that losing him will result in my having to endure a month or so worth of cloned Rossi/Subotic/Castillo threads. Robles - Another player who I've not seen play, but he has earned his starting position at keeper twice this season at Kaiserslautern and I keep reading good things about his play.
Is Diskerud going to be at the U20 WC for us? I kinda doubt he'd play both. I also don't think we should be in the business of calling players up just to make sure they're cap-tied for us. THey've got to be good enough; they've got to beat out the competition. This needs to be a meritocracy. He's a central midfielder right? Has he earned a call-up more than Szetela, Holden, Feilhaber, Clark, Beckerman, Simms, Carrol, Kljestan, Torres, Jewsbury, Cronin, Lawrentowitz etc. etc. etc. (not to mention Edu, Mastroeni, & Bradley who I think are locks for the Confed Cup) I have no idea, but at this point to get caps with the USMNT in the center of midfield you've gotta be pretty good. Hell, Dax McCarty and Logan Pause have had good games in the middle this season. I could go on and on........... Whitbread and Robles seem like good choices.
i suspect BB can fill out a confed cup and gold cup roster without having to delve into obscure names... now, bringing some one to a camp is different... and obscure guy getting playing time is robbing other more deserving names...
Only Rongen knows that at this point I'd assume. You're right. It is a meritocracy, but it's also a very subjective decision on the part of BB. It's who he thinks merits the spot, based upon his criteria (whatever that is). Like I said, there's no way for me to know how good the kid is b/c I haven't seen his games at the league level. So I can't really say he deserves it over another CM. But let's look at the question that was asked: "Obscure" Yanks Abroad to consider for the GC. And let's also look at your list of players whom Mix would be competing with for spots. Feilhaber, Clark, Beckerman, Kljestan, Torres, Edu, Mastro, and Bradley could hardly be deemed obscure to start. So, if you'll allow me, let's eliminate them. Not saying they're not deserving. They just don't fit the parameters of the discussion. That leaves Szetela, Holden, Simms, Carrol, Jewsbury, Cronin, and Lawrentowitz, if I'm not mistaken. Forgot you mentioned McCarty and Pause. To be honest, against that group, I'd throw the 18 year old in there and I believe that he'd show well....I'd feel as good as I would with any of the others. My opinion, which is all this thread is really about, is that none of the remaining "obscure" players has done enough to make a compelling argument to exclude Mix. The one's who've been called up in the past obviously haven't done enough to lock down a spot. The one's who haven't been called, well....it's obvious that they aren't all that compelling either. The only point is that the players I didn't eliminate from your list are as debateable as Diskerud. IMO, the difference, is that we don't know exactly what we have with Mikkel. All the more reason to call him in. I don't advocate capping players to eliminate their choices. I just happen to have a good feeling about Diskerud which is why I chose him.
I wouldn't see it as a pure meritocracy. It's also about building the program for the future. Potential has to be examined. So a promising 18-19 year old may get a call over a seldom-capped 25 year old. Diskerud is a winger. Mostly on the right but I believe he can also play the left. That changes things. Here's the question.. how does he stack up with other American teenagers when they first started receiving their first caps? Zizzo - rewarded with a cap shortly after the U20 WC right after he signed his first pro contract with Hannover. Szetela - rewarded with cap shortley after the U20 WC. Very limited experience to speak of. Bradley - capped under Bruce Arena. Only had less than a years MLS experience Seitz - never capped but has been on the roster in the past as a backup to Howard despite only being a MLS backup. So, a callup for Mix is not unprecedented at all. In fact, it would be a nice reward to the USA U20 player who is in the best club position out of anyone in Europe or MLS. I am not saying he's the best USA U20 player, but he is in the best club position (even including Jozy or Freddy at the moment). The Gold Cup comes during the Norwegian summer break and he would miss little, if any, club games. He has already said he is leaning towards playing for the United States anyway. The kid regularly plays for the defending Norwegian champs and is only 18 years old. In fact, he's played in every game and has started twice. He is in a better position than some of guys who will probably make the GC roster: Zizzo, and Szetela. So meritocracy and building for the future probably should include Mix. Do I really think it will happen? Not really. But I think there is a strong case for it.
If you haven't seen his games at the league level, how can you have a good feeling about him? On Big Soccer we get too wrapped up in the fact that a player is in Europe, and therefore must be better than all of the MLS guys we've got. We see these guys week-in week-out and know their strengths and weaknesses. So we obviously get excited by the unknown. But friendlies are the time to call up these obscure "unknowns," not the championship of our confederation. I haven't seen this kid's league games either, so I have no idea whether he's good enough for the USMNT. If we assume for a second that Bob takes Edu, Bradley, Mastroeni, and Torres to the Confederations Cup. That's a likely scenario for me, as I see no reason to take 5 central midfielders (Adu and Donovan can play there to as we know, if Bob wants to go more offensive in the midfield). Then I'd bring Clark, Kljestan, Holden, and Feilhaber to the Gold Cup. And if we need a fifth then it's Szetela. Holden's the uncapped player there, and we need to see Feilhaber and Szetela I don't see any way Diskerud makes it to this. If he was a forward then I could make an argument to check him out. But not in the center of midfield at the moment. Too many other options to take a look at. EDIT: I just saw bshredder's post that he's really a winger. That makes things a bit more interesting.
Those caps were all in friendlies. This is a tournament we need to take really seriously, or we're going to be blown out. We want to go with these obscure guys against a full strength Canada, Honduras, Mexico, Costa Rica, etc.? Good luck. There's no way Bob's just going to go all experimental as some people suggest. There will be a couple of uncapped players (Holden, Alvarez, Robles, maybe Whitbread), but he's not going to go all nuts with it.
I think there is room for experienced players and youngsters making their debuts. I just actually think Dikserud has earned it over guys that everyone assumes will make it like Szetela and Zizzo. Staebek will most likely play Mix in the Champions League so we should be able to trust him with sub minutes against Haiti, Guatelama, et all. Just because I think he should be on the roster doesn't mean I think he should be a key to our team. He's our best peforming U20 player at the club level so far in 2009 and will be playing in the Champions League. That's certainly not bad and I don't think it's "going nuts" to include him. In fact, it's quite beneficial to include promising teenager who is playing and playing well. There is certainly plenty of room to include him along with some more established guys (Convey, Clark, etc) and remain very competitive in the Gold Cup.