NWSL vs European Leagues.

Yeah, if someone doesn't want to play in college, NWSL doesn't have the academy or reserve league infrastructure yet to support them, assuming they're not ready to go pro. But I wouldn't use that as a sign of NWSL falling behind or anything - in those areas, Europe has already had a huge head start. And I wouldn't consider it a sign of higher-level competitiveness. While NWSL is competitive, the spending ceiling is still higher in Europe, so if you're talking "top" prospects, Europe is still more likely; plus, NWSL's top spending is limited as to who it can be spent on - rookies will almost never qualify for better pay (i.e. Mia Fishel's case) so I wouldn't be surprised if pre-college age players similarly don't.

 

Lindsey Horan on why she stayed in Lyon rather than return the Thorns..

Here’s the clip: Lindsey Horan calls out PTFC for not having equitable, grass field facilities for the Thorns to train.

“How do the Timbers have it but the Thorns don’t?” #BAONPDX #NWSL https://t.co/brc62HpEmQ pic.twitter.com/oweZXNfIz0

— Ryan Clarke (@RyanTClarke) July 13, 2023

 

I read that Horan was offered the 3rd highest salary in woso history by Lyon—-so might also have something to do with it, lol
————————————————————
to add to the OP discussion;
another pro side for Europe is that reputable players get to choose where they want to go instead of being forced upon somewhere they don’t necessarily want to move to do to drafts, trades, expansions excedra

at the other hand, having a way more balanced league like the NWSL is way better for player development. There’s a lack of parity in woso right now in Europe, which forces practically all the best places into one or two clubs per league. From following the Frauen Bundesliga; big pro clubs like Dortmund Shalke, BoMoch haven’t even bothered to its an women’s side, thus allowing Wolfsburg to buy up almost all the top domestic talent, & the results at times turn into complacent/lackadaisical performances from their players as there’s no real competition from the rest of the league accept Bayern(whose been buying mainly foreign recruits).

 

And also, Horan’s fiance, Tyler Heaps, works for AS Monaco which is the France’s Ligue 1. That surely is another reason she wants to stay in France.

I think her comment about the practice field in Portland is a cheap shot. The Timbers-Thorns organization has its practice facility in Beaverton, outside Portland. It has a turf field and a grass field. Both are used as practice fields. The women used to practice there. They currently practice, however, at Providence park. My understanding is the women practice at Providence Park because they have said they would rather practice there than in Beaverton.

The players were strong advocates for owner Meritt Paulson to sell the Thorns, after the Paul Riley debacle. At the time, the organization was looking at finding a separate practice facility for the women that could have had a grass field. Paulson agreed to sell the Thorns and the organization says work on that still is underway, though putting together a sale that retains the advantages for the Thorns (economies of scale, dual use of Providence Park, etc.) that dual Timbers-Thorns ownership had must make the process significantly more complicated. Until that process is completed, it seems extremely unlikely a separate grass field practice facility realistically could be created for the Thorns. Thus the players got what they wanted with the sale of the Thorns process being underway and a byproduct of that is it has stunted the new practice facility work. Horan should be aware of this and probably is.

This is not to say that Providence Park should not be grass or that the Thorns should not have a grass practice field. I would prefer both, although there are apparently some pretty serious practical barriers to converting Providence Park to grass. It also is not to say I think Paulson should not sell the Thorns, I think he should and pretty much must. Rather it only is to say that the current practice field situation would be extremely difficult to fix in advance of a sale of the Thorns, which is what the players advocated for, and Horan almost certainly knows all of that. If she wants to advocate for grass fields throughout the NWSL, which is what she seems to be really interested in, I am all for it. But using the lack of grass fields as a reason for why she does not want to come back to the NWSL seems to me a stretch. Rather, she is just using her decision to stay in Lyon as an excuse to advocate for grass fields in the NWSL.

 

Not all choices are voluntary and even if it were a choice that doesn't change what Horan said.

However, I'm not sure it was a real choice. The Beaverton training facility has A grass field and A turf field. From what I understand, the "choice" to practice at PP wasn't a choice of grass vs. turf. Since there was only 1 grass field, Portland's FO had to juggle 4 teams and they prioritized to the mens' teams (main squad and T2) to use the grass field. This resulted in the Thorns practicing at odd hours, or on the turf field. As a result, when presented with the option of training on a turf field in Beaverton, or training on a turf field in Portland, the players "chose" to practice near where they lived in Portland.

 

If Horan wanted to train on grass in the NWSL she simply could have asked for a trade. It is not hard to do. She followed her fiance to France and she chose to play in an easier situation (top team in a weaker over all league). Her comment was a cheap shot. She was going to France no matter what. The fast NWSL league does not fit her style of play.

 

It’s more than just practicing on turf, it’s also playing on turf. How about y’all actually go listen to what Horan said rather than lining up to defend Portland’s mistreatment of the Thorns players? It’s really not that hard.

 

I am a big Horan fan and think she is one of the best in the world.

And, I did listen to what she said, closely. Further, you might try reading my post, in which I said I thought they should have grass ( so you should apply your go listen ... advice to yourself). I have no problem with Horan saying the Thorns (and other NWSL teams) should play and practice on grass, as I agree completely. My issue with Linds is that she indicated that was a reason for her staying in Lyon, which I think is phony. Grass or no grass, she was not coming back to Portland with the money she is getting from Lyon and her fiance being in France.

 

I did listen to it closely. She is not being truthful about why she left. She would not have played at Portland that long (6 years) if the turf was the issue. She never asked for a trade during those years. She went to Lyon because her now fiance lives in France.

No one is defending turf vs grass. We are just responding to her cheap shot at Portland. Keep in mind that Portland was good to her with the loan to Lyon and subsequent transfer. This is how she pays them back.

 

I was really hoping when the first CBA was negotiated a year or two ago that making salaries public would be part of it. That's what happened when MLS first recognized its PA and got their first CBA. Sad that we'll likely have to wait another CBA or two at this point for NWSL.

 

I would love the NWSL to have a Cross border trophy with European club sides. Perhaps a Scotland v NWSL cup such as the Scottish Champions v the NWSL champions.
Or the English champions against the NWSL champions. In a England USA Super Cup.
Or the women's European champions league winners v NWSL champions, in a Europe v USA club Super Cup.

 

I think a lot of fans -- me included -- would like this. The problem is, the US and Euro seasons do not match up, so we would be getting competition between teams that are in season versus teams that are out of season. That is the problem we have now with the cup that that has been played in Portland in the past. It is hard to see a viable solution to the problem, due to weather differences.

 

Since England is struggling and may not qualify for the Olympics do the Euro biased posters have anything to say? Should we blame it on the WSL like these posters did with the NWSL when the US stunk up the World Cup?

 

England lost both away games in the current Nations League to Netherlands & Belgium in part due to those countries having an near dozen playing in the WSL---which also near equals the amount of players from other major NT's like Australia, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and now even bought up a lot of Japanese players(@blissett to verify this)

Only 50% percent of the WSL are from England(though higher percentage if you include UK). Last week's (usual underachieving) Belgium's win shows how much stronger Europe is developing even among their late comers/Menatime Portugal(which gave the US it's worst game at the WC) heading for last place in their NL group, meaning they'll be dumped to 'B' status/or at least 16 Euro 'A' NT's better then them.

(ENG loss); England got 9 times less the population of the US, so nowhere near as depth ladden. Alex Greenwood got badly hurt early on in the Belgium game to go along with the current injuries to usual starters Wilkerson, Mead/ arguably ENG' best winger, Lucy Galton, simply refuses to play for the NT---and in my book; Wiegman, always been an way better 'tournament' coach than an one week/open window, one

back to WSL vs NWSL,
if we consider making it at least to the World Cup semi-finals as the epitome of success, than it was 47 WSL players vs only 2 NWSL(Luik & Jacobsson) that made into the top 4(as mentioned AUS & SWE had quite a few WSL players as well)

I would of given credit the NWSL of being the more balanced league, but now take an look at last place Chicago Red Stars roster(scroll down a little)
USA - Chicago Red Stars - Results, fixtures, squad, statistics, photos, videos and news - Women Soccerwa
as compared to the current last place WSL's Aston Villa---look on paper, the way stronger side
England - Aston Villa WFC - Results, fixtures, squad, statistics, photos, videos and news - Women Soccerway
I mean they got nearly chosen NWSL/ MVP, Rachel Daly/current Dutch #1 GK/Corsie, Staniforth, Nobbs, Dali with either former or current NT experience. Not familier with everybody else, but their attacking side got as well; Canadian NT starter Leon,/N. Ireland's top scorer, Magill/Scotland's current top scorer, Hansen/previous 16 NWSL goals, Salmon/and then they got Lehmann who's arguably woso #1 ''social media influencer"(but that's more due to her front & rear photos than soccer skills!-but at least she sells tickets)

compare that to CRS internationals; the ever aging Nagasato who hasnt played for her NT for ages/St George, who's yet to make it on the Canadian NT/ Brazilian Bianche, yet who's NT was an spectacular failure at the WC despite having arguably 2 of the 3 best players in the NWSL

but then why Portland didnt bother putting it;s best game face either in their loss to Mexico's FC Monterrey?

 

I can of course confirm: a lot of the most high-profile Japanese players who made the roster for the last World Cup play in FA-WSL (although a pair of them were just signed at the beginning of the current season), including the two only Japanese players who made the list of the nominations for the Ballon d'Or: we have Yui Hasegawa in Manchester City, Hinata Miyazawa in Manchester United, Fuka Nagano in Liverpool and even three usual Nadeshiko starters in West Ham (Risa Shimizu, Honoka Hayashi and Riko Ueki).

On the other hand, NWSL is sure at the second place for number of Japanese internationals: Hina Sugita in Portland, Jun Endo in Los Angeles, Narumi Miura (who didn't made the World Cup roster but has recently been called back for the Olympics qualifiers) in North Carolina, along with two promising young players who had some sparse caps for the Senior team, Manaka Matsukubo and Rikako Kobayashi (North Carolina also had Fuka Nagano, until she decided to transfer to Liverpool in FA-WSL).
Also, what you say about Yuki Nagasato is a little inaccurate (or, better, il would need an additional piece of info); you say that:

That's true and of course now, at age 36, she would never be considered for a call, but actually she kind of retired from the National Team by her choice since 2016 and there was a reasonable span of time after that when she was still quality and could have been called if she had chosen to; later, when she expressed a vague interest for a return, she was already out of the plans of the coach at the time, Asako Takakura.

 

Thanks for all the convoluted stats but you missed the point. England squad is almost entirely WSL developed and they are struggling. You can’t take one World Cup in which we did not lose a game and may or may not have conceded a PK by an inch to advance. Also you don’t calculate the difference in coaching quality. We did not have a coach. England had one of the best in the World. Your Euro bias is incredible.

 

You did not acknowledge that the NWSL has stricter international rules. We can take a lot less internationals so we may not be targeting your players.

 

What do you think the answer is to your question?

 

We can make a head to head comparison of Europeans with NWSL teams: The International Women's Cup. In four years , Lyon won first place twice, NC once, and Portland once Monterrey, Barcelona, and Chelsea never finished better than third. Man City finished 2nd once and third once out of four teams.

It was preseason for the Europeans. But the US teams didn't play many of their starters, regarding the whole tournament like a scrimmage.

Club Winners Runners-up Third place
Lyon 2 (2019, 2022) 2 (2018, 2021)
North Carolina Courage 1 (2018) 1 (2019)
Portland Thorns 1 (2021)
Monterrey 1 (2022)
Manchester City 2 (2018, 2019)
Barcelona 1 (2021)
Chelsea 1 (2022)

 

What makes you think that? They actually lost games in an unfortunate manner, not because they were sub par against their opponents.

 

Just that they have not played well (cohesive) yet. Understandably it is early and they just had an international window.