NWSL coaching carousel

Discussion in 'NWSL' started by SiberianThunderT, Sep 1, 2021.

  1. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #26 CoachJon, Jun 7, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2022
    The pendulum swings too far. We get announcements publicly identifying the accused but not the accuser. And no real information, publicly about what actually happened. For all we know, Cromwell could have made someone run laps for being late to practice and the player is saying that was retaliation. The other thing is - Employees: there is no rule your employer has to like you; and if you are being held to a high standard, that is NOT harassment.

    I posted my thoughts about the need for speedy investigations over in the NWSL general news thread.
     
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  2. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #27 lil_one, Jun 7, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2022
    Well, yeah. That's how it works when an investigation is ongoing. At least, this time we get the detail of "alleged retaliation." We may or may not get some details after the investigation concludes.

    I'm pretty sure that you're being hyperbolic here, but just to make it clear: I can guarantee you this is not what is being investigated. I don't know if Cromwell is guilty or not, but they're not putting a coach on leave for holding players accountable to being on time or acting professionally. We can just look to recent history of what has caused coach dismissals to be assured of that.

    EDIT adding the NWSL policy that defines retaliation:

    "NWSL prohibits reprisal or retaliation against anyone for engaging in the following Protected Activity: filing a good faith report under this Policy; supporting or assisting, in good faith, someone else in pursuing a report or in an investigation; objecting to misconduct; or filing, testifying, assisting or participating in any manner in any investigation, proceeding or hearing conducted by a governmental enforcement agency. NWSL will not, and will not allow a Team to, retaliate against anyone for exercising any rights under this Policy. Retaliation of any kind is a violation of this Policy.

    "Retaliation can take many forms. Prohibited retaliation could include any of the following actions if taken because of a player/employee’s involvement in Protected Activity: termination of employment, demotion, transfer to less desirable position, suspension, failure to hire or consider for hire, failure to give equal consideration in making employment decisions, failure to make employment recommendations impartially, adversely affecting working conditions, or otherwise denying any employment benefit."
    https://www.nwslsoccer.com/documents/2022/3/8/NWSL_Anti_Harassment_Policy.pdf
     
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  3. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    #28 SiberianThunderT, Jun 7, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2022
    Yeah, any time you hear "retaliation" in a professional context, that always means that someone has negatively affected your job standing. In the soccer world, I assume that means blackballing a player from play time or even making salary decisions or roster cuts. And that's assuming the accuser is a player - which, by the Athletic story, does sound correct, but there's plenty of ways for professional retaliation on the staff side as well. Until more details come out - if they ever do - it's not right to assume this is an overreaction.
    =EDIT=
    Looks like I made my post while the previous one was being edited with the official definition of "retaliation" in this context. Thanks lil_one!
     
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  4. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One of the things that irritates me most is that we all know Cromwell and Clarkson were suspended, but we will never know what the actual accusation was, even in general terms that do not identify the accuser -
    such as: A player accused Cromwell of cutting playing time and not being named to a traveling squad in retaliation for filing a complaint of verbal harassment against an assistant coach. Investigators determined that the complaint of verbal harassment did not have sufficient foundation and that no cause and effect relationship was established between the complaint filing and the player’s playing time or traveling squad status.

    We will never get that or similar for any of the other iterations of the investigation outcome.
     
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  5. 2233soccer

    2233soccer Member

    United States
    Sep 13, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why is there always an assumption that players are whining and making false accusations about a coach because they aren’t getting playing time or some other silly issue. Isn’t it time to just respect the players and understand there are legitimate laws in place to protect employees-athletes from inappropriate behaviors of a coach that historically has had a lot of unchecked power
     
  6. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do not think there is that assumption here, although I understand why you have posted this.

    I think a difficulty is that most of the time, there is not a full public disclosure of all of the facts. I do not mind that the process is confidential while it is being conducted; and I think we have to have patience while the process is running, which can be a long time. At the end, however, I think it would be beneficial and educational for everyone, if the facts and analysis were made public (as is done, for example, via court decisions). I have gotten to the point where I think full disclosure, including all of the parties involved including the initial complainant, would be the best. We all need to stop protecting ourselves by not going public.
     
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  7. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My issue is that nowadays the assumption is that accusations are true and coaches are guilty. The example I gave in the post you replied to was my follow up to @lilone’s post giving the definition of retaliation. The CBA, rightfully, has put employee protections in place that have been present in the corporate world for many years, but heretofore not available for NWSL players.
     
  8. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Decided to x-post here since it seems the better place for it:

    Kris Ward is out, and so far, all we have is this tweet on twitter:



    And also now we have this tweet from Meg Linehan:



    This gives off vibes of a sudden firing, and that makes me wonder why. Honestly, maybe I just have some trauma from the rest of the coaching fiascos in NWSL, but if this was just performance based, then surely it would have been planned a bit more with a press release and a coaching plan in place? At the very least, this is a strange way to make the announcement.
     
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  9. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Agreed, this feels very odd. Obviously being on such a long winless streak sucks, but as I've posted in another thread, it's not like the Spirit are looking bad on the field or being that far away from a much better record - just one extra goal in half of their games and they'd be so much higher on the table. It's not like NJY where the team clearly doesn't have an identity or plan of attack. Really makes me worry.
     
  10. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    For the speculation:
    Kris Ward is normally fairly active on Twitter. He hasn't posted anything since RTing the following Tweet on the 19th:
     
  11. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Context from the Post:
    Screenshot_20220822-170210.png

    Sounds like he badly lost the locker room; some antagonism now, but doesn't sound like anything getting into inappropriate territory, at least based on what we know so far
     
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  12. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More info on what happened with Ward:

     
  13. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ward speaks to the Athletic. Honestly, in this, it sounds like the Spirit just wanted to go in a different direction and the incident last week with a player was not much of anything other than the final excuse that management needed to let Ward go.
     
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  14. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Obviously he's not gonna look bad from his own point of view, but from what we've seen of him so far, I think most of his side of the story tracks. I kinda doubt he's *never* yelled at players at all this year, but I do feel like this was maybe less of an ongoing personnel problem and more just the straw that broke the camel's back, as it were. If Salem and another player both stepped in on this particular incident as he described, it certainly supports the idea that this incident was atypical, and he'd probably still be coaching if on-field results had been better. Still, I definitely want a player perspective here too, just to have the full picture.
     
  15. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Apparently there were too many "but"s in my previous post - we now have a statement from the players and it's pretty point-blank.

    The players are angered at the Athletic interview, calling Ward's recollection of the incident completely inaccurate and fully supporting his removal by the club.

    Those video tapes of practice are gonna be a hot item now.
     
  16. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
    Can this investigation not take months? It is a single incident on video. It should take 10 minutes to get done. It is unbelievable how long the Cromwell investigation has taken. She was only there a couple months. How long does it take to looking into it? There is not enough history with her and Orlando to take this long.
     
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  17. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Coaching carousel news:

    Obv a lot of people are asking for Sarah Lowdon to get the job after how well she did in her acting-head-coach stint.
     
  18. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Lowdown was acting HC from April 29 to Jume 15
    Amoroso was hire then as interim HC

    crediting both coaches for the records during those time spans gives Lowdon a 4-3-2 record, while Amoroso gets credit for a 6-3-2 record.
     
  19. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
    Amoroso is headed to Gotham it seems.

     
  20. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    The carousel keeps going 'round....
     
  21. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Missed posting the other day:
    Parsons is back with the Spirit as head coach

    New today:
    Bev Yanez has joined Racing as assistant coach

    The carousel keeps going 'round....
     
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  22. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I guess basically everyone loves Bev Yanez, so I wish her good luck with her new coaching job! :thumbsup:
     
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