PBP: NWSL CHAMPIONSHIP FINAL Pre/In/Post Game Discussion

Discussion in 'NWSL' started by sisterluke, Aug 24, 2013.

  1. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No. (You really want to feed into that tiresome Morgan-bashing that takes place here at BigSoccer?!)

    Mainly they got better when Heath arrived. Apart from that it's hard to generalize. Sinclair, who I thought played below her standards for most of the season, played better the last few games. I thought in the semifinal against Kansas City, the heat affected KC more; I noticed that Desiree Scott in particular became a non-factor.
     
  2. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Same tiresome crap. Want to talk about the save off the line? Thought it only happened to other goalkeepers, not Franch.
     
  3. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why are we quibbling over the Zerboni-Long collision if you don't think it was a foul on Long?
     
  4. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    The Thorns Celebration will actually be up the street from Pioneer square at Jeld-Wen field.

    Noon on Wednesday. Gates open at 11:00 (entrance at Gate 2 - the Keybank entrance)
     
  5. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Curious, will Alex Morgan, Rachel Buehler, Tobin Heath be there? (Currently Morgan and Heath with national team; Heath heading soon back to Paris?). That would be a pity to not share the moment with Portland's fans. They even contributed to the Thorns winning the championship although you would never know it reading BigSoccer and its members.
     
  6. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    yeah, a bunch of players wont be there -- Two for the Nats, Weimer went to Florida, Long is in NC,(I think), Sinclair is doing something with fifa I dont know about Heath...

     
  7. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    Heath tweeted that she already left for Paris. Or at least it looks like it if I deciphered the cryptology correctly:
     
  8. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    sorry, didn't mean to bash on Morgan, I think she's the best player in the world. It's just the Portland coaching staff didn't have much imagination how to use her except to isolate her and use her speed for 1v1 & breakaways. With her missing, Portland became a much harder team to figure out for the KC & Flash semi & finals game
     
  9. newsouth

    newsouth Member

    Nov 20, 2010
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    :rolleyes:

    You have to apologize for saying that truth. Morgan and Sinclair don't Sinc. And Portland worked better with Sinclair in her natural role as a lone-striker. What's bashing about that? Next, people will complain if you say Wambach was flopping to pick up a cheap penalty in the box.

    I don't know about that best in the world thing.

    The good thing is, Portland will have another season to make them work out.

    Complain on.
     
    Nacional Tijuana repped this.
  10. skybolt

    skybolt Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    I think Morgan will be the first person to admit that she should've converted on more of her scoring chances during the regular season, especially since she led the league in both shots and shots on target. Sinclair also had problems converting unless she was wide open in front of goal. That being said, both players tend to step up big during crucial final matches when everything is on the line. For instance, here are Morgan's contributions in the final matches of the last 10 tournaments she was involved in:

    1.) November 2008 - USWNT-U20 2 N. Korea 1 (Under 20 WC) - Morgan scored the second goal.
    2.) November 2010 - USA 1 Italy 0 (WC Qualifying 1st Leg) - Morgan came in as a late sub and scored the winning goal in extra time. She did not play in the 2nd leg here in Chicago.
    3.) March 2011 - USA 4 Iceland 2 (Algarve Cup Final) - Morgan came in as alate sub and scored the 4th goal to put the game away in the last 10 minutes.
    4.) July 2011 - Japan 3 USA 2 in Penalties (WC Final) - Morgan scored 1 goal and assisted on the other one.
    5.) August 2011 - WNY 2 Philadelphia 1 in penalties (WPS Final) - Morgan did not score or assist.
    6.) January 2012 - USA 4 Canada 0 (Oympic Qualifying Final) - Morgan with 2 goals and 2 assists.
    7.) March 2012 - USA 4 Sweden 0 (3rd Place Match at Algarve Cup) - Morgan with 3 goals.
    8.) August 2012 - USA 2 Japan 1 (Olympics Final) - Morgan with an assist.
    9.) March 2013 - USA 2 Germany 0 (Algarve Cup Final) - Morgan with 2 goals.
    10.) August 2013 - Portland 2 WNY 0 (NWSL Final) - Morgan with an assist.

    In 10 final matches Morgan has 11 goals and 5 assists. We can all make arguments about whether or not she should've performed better during the regular season (or preliminary tournament maches), but there's no doubt how well she's performed when the title is on the line!
     
    kolabear and Namdynamo repped this.
  11. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    What Im quibbling about is Seitz not blowing the whistle. Her first job is to control the game.
     
  12. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Let's do the math. Morgan has no problem playing with Wambach but cant play with Sinclair. Sinclair has no problem playing when she is the only scoring option, but cant play with Morgan. Yeah, it's Morgan. ;)
     
  13. skybolt

    skybolt Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    The whole thing seemed very odd to me. It was definitely a full on collision, but I do think that Zerboni tried to sell the hard hit in order to get Long ejected from the match. First of all, if she was knocked completely unconscious, there's no way that she could spring up to her feet like she did afterwards. How do you go from being completely out cold to getting up like nothing happened? How would the trainers even allow this without taking the necessay precautions. Also, if she was still conscious laying on the ground and only sprang up when she felt she was okay, then why pretend to be out cold. From my past experience I've never seen anyone get knocked out like that, but be able to get back to their feet a second after regaining consciousness.
     
  14. BlueCrimson

    BlueCrimson Member+

    North Carolina Courage
    United States
    Nov 21, 2012
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Have you forgotten about Founders' Cup III, when Abby scored the golden goal for Washington against Atlanta? Or the 2004 Olympic Final, when she scored the game winning goal in overtime? And even though they lost the World Cup on penalties, Abby did score in that game, and was the only US player to convert a kick in the shootout. To say she has a bad record in finals is not quite true, as she has come through before.

    Now I wish I could forget about the Founders' Cup, since that result still hurts 10 years later. I was a big Atlanta fan in the WUSA and WPS days.
     
    hykos1045 repped this.
  15. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    Well I guess you conveniently did not read my post...
     
  16. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    The full collision was Zerboni taking three steps and undercutting Long, who was the only player who actually went up and played the ball. Her lying on the ground was her trying to figure out why she did something that stupid.
     
  17. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are different video angles available of the collision. Zerboni had a clear path to the ball and was there first. Long went up and over the top of Zerboni - just like an 'over the back' rebounding foul in basketball. It may have looked straight up from some angles, but it was not.
     
  18. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    You are only allowed to compete for position for the purpose of playing the ball or for a shoulder to shoulder challenge ( one foot on the ground for each player. You cannot challeng a player in the air without playing the ball) If you leave the ground, contact must be directed at the play to the ball. I don't think Zerboni ever left the ground or made a play to the ball.

    If a player goes up for the ball and you move under them you committed the foul. Zerboni was moving towards Long and never actually played to the ball.
     
  19. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    She blew the whistle - albeit perhaps to stop the game for injury. Perhaps, since Long was able to play the ball with no problem, she felt it didn't even merit a foul. As someone else here said (I haven't replayed it), Zerboni seemed to get hurt from her head hitting the ground rather than from the collision.
     
  20. fire123

    fire123 Member+

    Jul 31, 2009
    Are such videos available somewhere ?
     
  21. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #246 CoachJon, Sep 4, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
    Zerboni did leave the ground and was playing the ball. See my comments below.

    Thanks for asking. I did a further review - I watched several highlight videos of the championship, but the best one of the Long-Zerboni collision is the Fox telecast (which can be found on the internet). I believe it supports my opinion that Zerboni had position and Long went up and over, committing a foul. My review.

    First watch Zerboni, starting at 69:10 on the game clock; she is on the right and stays in frame until the collision. The ball was played forward by a Flash player from behind and to the left of Zerboni. Zerboni moved forward to play the ball. She has her eyes on the ball. Long is coming from Zerboni’s “blind” side. They both jump at the same time.

    Next watch Long, starting at 69:24, when she comes into frame from the right. It is clear that both the ball and Zerboni are in her field of vision and she has a clear view of the ball played forward. There is no way she does not see Zerboni moving to the ball. Long takes off from a spot in the middle of the dark green stripe on the turf and lands to the left on the border between the dark green stripe and light green stripe, covering about 3 feet, and she lands closer to the touchline than where she took off. She did not go straight up. You can also see she leaned over Zerboni when she made her play for the ball. While not clearly in view, on the re-play it appears that her left arm made contact with Zerboni’s head, knocking Zerboni off her feet.

    I am formally withdrawing my characterization of Long as a hatchet. However based on the following data from NWSL, regardless of the fact that Lloyd does not know how to tackle, I no longer excuse her - she is a hatchet - and so is Stich.

    NWSL Stats - top seven in fouls committed.
    Player, Fouls Committed, Fouls Suffered, Difference
    Lloyd, 35,18 = 17 (2x as many FC as FS)
    Chalupny, 33, 41 = -8
    Sitch, 33,8 = 25 (4x as many FC as FS)
    Wambach, 32,34 = -2
    Fishlock, 30, 44 = -14
    Long, 29, 20 = 9
    Zerboni, 27,26 =1
    Morgan, 21,26 = -5 (not in the top 7, but on the field for the game).
     
  22. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting stats. However, one also must factor in that some players are masters at making fouls committed look like fouls suffered. Unless, of course, you believe refs' calls are perfect, which I'm sure isn't the case.
     
  23. BlueCrimson

    BlueCrimson Member+

    North Carolina Courage
    United States
    Nov 21, 2012
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's expand that list to the top 10:

    Player, FC, FS, difference:

    Lloyd- 35, 18- +17
    Chalupny- 33, 41- -8
    Sitch- 33, 8- +25
    Wambach- 32, 34- -2
    Fishlock- 30, 44- -14
    Long- 29, 20- +9
    Zerboni- 27, 26- +1
    Masar- 26, 9- +17
    Kyle- 26, 16- +10
    Rapinoe- 25, 12- +13

    Why do some of these players get a pass on the number of fouls they commit, when they're almost as bad as those that get called out? Why are Lloyd and Long being called thugs when there are others who have the same number of fouls per game that don't get that label? Stats never lie. They can be manipulated, but they don't lie.
     
  24. Smallchief

    Smallchief Member+

    Oct 27, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    The most egregious foul I saw during the season was Tobin Heath's takedown of Chalupny. It should have been a red card. Heath got 4 yellow cards is less than half a season, so if we're identifying thugs she should be near the top of the list.

    Others tied with the lead in yellow cards with 4: Morgan, Fishlock, Kyle, Lloyd.

    Desiree Scott, to my mind, was the player you didn't want to mess with. I'm not saying she was dirty, only that she knew how to get even.

    The biggest whiners in the league were Morgan and Wambach. Wambach was an effective whiner; Morgan was not.

    I thought the tone of the foul-fest final was set when Angela Salem got in a wrestling match with Cat Williamson six or so minutes in. A yellow on Salem there by an alert referee might have calmed the match down.
     
  25. hykos1045

    hykos1045 Member

    May 10, 2010
    Club:
    Philadelphia Independence
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The entire game is shown on their youtube channel, and if you google "NWSL championship portland" a link to the legitimate final box score can be established. This is a marked improvement over the WPS web presence for the most part. I just wish the schedule pages were more up to speed, indicating the playoffs games with some sort of special designation, and also providing a way to select the write-ups from the schedule page. Without this, I have found the 2013 archived schedule pages to be inconveniently lacking information.
     

Share This Page