NWR: Williams apparently gone

************ Roy Williams

 

Ditto. F--- that.

 

good, now i can support him. he's too good of a coach, and too classy of a person to have not won the ncaa championship yet. it's like al macinnis of the blues... if he'd just go to another team, i'd love to see him win.

 

Ahh yes, ornthologists everywhere rejoice at the spotting of the the spoiled rotten yellow-beaked bluebird. Found mainly in West KC and East Kansas with heavy concentrations of young chicks in Lawerence. This whiny bird is commonly referred to as "Jayhawk Fan". Their common actions are to show up to nothing but basketball and then whine when quality programs must be cut. (It's just rediculous that KU swimming isn't a program anymore. Two teams won the Big 8 title annually, KU and NU. Heck, MU even found the $ to build a new pool for their teams. I'd be shocked if anyone here had any idea about either fact.) They support front-runners and detest strugglers. Seen only at Memorial Stadium before graduation only if they can't display plumage akin to detestable lowlife sellouts and pawn the ticket to a real fan willing to make the long required trek to that Saturday's Mecca. Normally, Jayhawks can be trusted leave 10 minutes in when KU gets down by two scores. Not one for loyalty, there's probably a televised exibition on the tube. At least every other species of bird knows they have an additional home game when you go to Lawerence. Beaker Pride. They crow loudly about success, tradition, and family, then condemn the man most responsible for it. Raised on the idea that KU basketball success is expected, nay, a birthright and commonly they ignore the reality that without Roy, Allen would be largely museum rather than snakepit.

Ahh, regale at the flight of the once mighty Jayhawk...

 

Oh Mizzou fans. The only pleasure they really have in college athletics is the pain of the Kansas Jayhawks.

Man most responsible for the tradition at Kansas. You know, its funny, but I think that moniker goes to either Phog Allen or James Naismith. Those names are obvious to anyone who knows college hoops, except maybe for Mizzou fans who think that the pinnacle of their tradition is some guy named Warren Hearnes. And speaking of throwing out the man most responsible for a tradition, what great treatment Norm Stewart has received at Mizzou. They see green from a rich but extremely bitter donor and kick their most successful coach to the curb to get their hands on the green. Yeah, you guys know all there is to know about loyalty and respect. Missouri: We're rolling back prices everywhere.

Don't tell me MU supports basketball like KU does. Even with lower standards than KU (MU's standards of course being beat KU once) the Hearnes Center (again, what the hell did Warren Hearnes ever do for college basketball), a building with a smaller capacity than Allen Fieldhouse, is no guaranteed sellout when KU isn't in town to feed the self-defeating obsession with the University of Kansas.

I love how Mizzou fans hate the St. Louis Post-Dispatch for actually reporting about all of the recruiting hanky-panky by the Mighty Quin. I suppose its too bad that the Post doesn't have some MU shill covering the MU beat like DeArmond does for the Star. To quote Jeff Gordon of the Post (and MU alum) "When will the NCAA stop slapping Quin Snyder and Missouri on the wrist for recruiting violations, and hit him over the head with a mallet?" Or how about Bryan Burwell: "The rule of thumb is simple: If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. In college basketball's well-informed coaching circles, Mizzou's basketball program is starting to be regarded as a renegade. What is being said about the MU basketball program ought to bother Snyder, Alden and Floyd. It ought to bother them that people are lumping them in with Florida, Cincinnati and Georgia, not Duke, Kansas or Stanford." Call me arrogant, call me a snob, but you know, we may not have an AD or head coach, but I'm still feeling better about KU.

Quin can wave his arms all he wants to and perform a wonderful rendition of "Eye of the Tiger" to pump up his players all he wants, but that won't erase the violations they are admitting in an attempt to save themselves from further NCAA action.

Again, I'd like to reiterate that Quin thought it was a good idea to sing a cheesy 80's rock song A CAPELLA because he thought for some reason it might pump up his players!!! If listening to someone sing Eye of the Tiger a capella ever, EVER pumps you up for a game...kill yourself.

Whomever KU hires as their new coach, I know one thing: he'll be better than pretty boy Quin, who judging by the looks of his wife, tends to hog the bathroom when getting ready in the morning. Look at it this way, Bill Self was turned down for the job at Moo. Hasn't lost a Braggin' Rights game yet, and whether if he's at KU or UofI next year, Moo fans will realize that the school made a bad choice, maybe a bigger blunder than KU hiring Al Bohl. (yes I'll go that far.)

 

Sorry to disappoint you Dave...

I have KU football STs but not basketball... a minor detail, but that arrow will not stick.

This is my Alma Mater. It is not a hobby. It is not trivial. And it is not undone by one man.

He preached loyalty and family and then excused himself from his lessons. It all rings hollow now. It turns out that there was never any Jayhawk in the man. He is as foreign as you are.

You would have us settle for being jilted. But the Kansas "family" is stronger than this one man. You've ignored that Jayhawks spend their time on campus hearing the names Naismith, Allen, Brown, Harp, Owens, Chamberlain, Manning, White, Born, Lovellette, Kellogg, Valentine, Sayers, Hadl, Riggins, Douglass, Ryun, Santee, Mills, Oerter. Tradition had its place here long before Roy had his. He is another name on that list. But he will never see his name on a building or a street or a basketball court. You see, we had family before he arrived, and it belongs to those who remain.

Others may follow Roy and "jump off of the bandwagon" and they are encouraged to do so. But I am a Jayhawk. You might confuse this for pride, but it is simply a fact.

 

I think you made a mistake there McGinty. I don't understand why you're trashing in Mizzou when the only person I've really seen attack the Jayhawks is a Husker fan. If you KU fans would stop crying over every little thing and grow up maybe you would see that coach Williams was a class act. He did preach family and loyalty and now he is going back to North Carolina where his family is. Yes it sucks that the KU and the Big 12 lost a good coach, but if you were in the same position and you had a chance to go back to your roots you would probably do the same.

Yes I am a Mizzou fan and as much as I hate to admit it I'm sorry to see Roy go. He made KU basketball a class act and for all of you selfish Jayhawks to ask him to do what you all want is pathetic. I hated to see Kareem Rush leave college early too but it was what he wanted to do and I respected his decision. I think a lot of the KU fans have a lot to learn about respect. Besides, this is a soccer website and we should be talking about more important things like the Wizards!

 

Those reasons you gave that we should gracefully accept this were true in 2000. I was willing to accept it and move on had it happened. But the fact that he said that building relationships here was so important, he learned lessons from Dean Smith and Bill Guthridge to be loyal to the players, he couldn't look players in the eye and tell them he was leaving, there would never be a new job, telling recruits he'll be there for 4 years, the fact that he felt like this was HIS program and felt like the Dean Smith of Kansas, and all of the other things that made us believe he was someone very special make it much harder to accept this. As Posnanski said, we thought he was more than just another coach. Scot Pollard is very upset about this, as are other former players because they thought they were part of something special. Current players (especially Simien) are very mad because they felt like they've been lied to. Recruits and their families are very upset as well.

He meets with the players rather quickly and storms into the Lincoln given to him by Laird Noller, zooms to the airport in an attempt to avoid the fans that love him, possibly more than UNC fans ever will, and jumps on a plane to Chapel-Hill. Then the fact that there's a lot of evidence that Dean Smith was already talking to Roy before Doherty was fired (don't give me that resigned crap). The first person Roy mentions at the press conference was Dolph Simons, editor in chief of the Journal World, so he doesn't get skewered by the LJW (nice try). He said he wasn't offered the job, but he admits that he had his hand on the phone on Friday and was about to turn it down. And why? Because of Omar Wilkes. And then there's David Padgett, who was also frequently mentioned. I don't think he mentioned any of the returning players at all and hardly mentioned Jeremy Case and JR Giddens, but Wilkes and Padgett got plenty of attention because he knows their committment isn't as solid and he wants them. Thats a class act?

Look, I didn't begrudge Paul Pierce or Drew Gooden for leaving early. They never deceived anyone that they had other plans. We were all played, plain and simple. As Pollard said earlier, anyone not affiliated with Kansas won't understand why people are so upset. You can think this was a simple decision between going home or staying where he was, but for anyone affiliated with this school, it will always be much more.

 

Actually, though he could just as well tell you this himself, Dave went to Mizzou. He's a fan of Husker sports because he grew up there until (high school?) Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I only lurk on these boards, and I'm probably sticking my nose in where I shouldn't, but here goes anyway. I work at KU, and in the almost 2 years I've been here in Lawrence, one of the weird things my wife and I have noticed is that people tend to see those who leave Lawrence as being "disloyal". Mainly, I've seen this with other KU staffers who have left for - to be honest - better offers or other family reasons. Before this I worked at Michigan, where it's a fact of life that people come and go; they simply concentrate on getting the "flow of good people" right. To be honest, university life - and especially, college athletics - is a business, pure and simple. And these things happen in business all the time. This may be irrelevant in the case of Roy Williams for some reason I don't understand, but the sentiment I'm hearing these days for him I've heard many times before with others here.

 

Beat me to it KCWF. Very observant!

 

This is pretty much my point. KUfan has an unbelievably distorted definition of the word pain. But, it's understandable, since other less successful sports are ignored to the point of having to be folded. Maybe another decade of getting pounded by K-St. will provide some education.

I think the word you are looking for is "history", "tradition" implies something ongoing with the addition of history.

I thought only women brought unrelated points into discussions...my bad. I remember reading that many were happy about Norm's leaving which, for the record, would make it a different situation.

I didn't.

OK...I couldn't care less.

It's hillarious that you would even care. Just curious, did MU win that game?

Wifesmack and my new Dad can beat up your Dad? Really?!? At least entertain us with a picture if the retort is that weak.

You might be right on the better coach. I'm still not sure what that has to do with anything, but OK. One thing I know for a fact; if he isn't, there will be more squalking from the West and misguided villification of Roy.

One thing I will admit as an MU grad and 'Husker fan. KU will have better weeks. Still, it's the height of irony that Norm got a night, honors, and a rocker and all Roy will get is an incredibly harsh collective middle finger. Then again, maybe that is just, since Norm has unquestionably done more for the rivalry.

 

Jack Hartman and Tex Winter Rule! Cotton Fitzimmons wasn't that bad either baby. Oh wait, different decade. Go Cats

 

A tip of the cap to you, sir. You are a true Jayhawk.

IMO, that's a narrow revisionist view that excludes the fact that Roy Williams was a member of both his actual blood family and the UNC family well before he married into KU. At some point you have to allow that he's deciding for and against family any way he goes. KUfan just got what looks today to be the short end. We'll see.

Do you get the imbalance of equating Roy with me in terms of things done for the U of K-Lawerence institution? I understand it hurts, but c'mon.

KU will always have history, but tradition isn't a KU birthright any more than it is for any other institution. It takes the work and sacrifice of men like Roy Williams to continually establish it over time. This is what I'm saying KUfan seems to be missing.

It's like listening to an NUfan gripe about Tom Osbourne deciding to "betray us" by absconding with his exquisite offensive play calling for the "relaxing" life of a US congressman because they are stuck with the "mediocrity" of Solich. Never mind that Osbourne was treated the same way as Solich when he replaced DeVanney, Tom delivered a large part of what is claimed as NU's "tradition", or that Solich won more games than anyone ever has his first 3 seasons. Talk about ringing hollow.
{clunk}
You see, the state of Nebraska and its' people were Tom Osbourne's family long before football entered the equation.

But I wouldn't understand anything about tradition, history, or its all-consuming powers.

I'm not saying settle for the "jilting", but like a divorce from a marriage of extreme wealth, there is plenty to help you get over it.

 

Why is there something odd about this smack coming from a Mizzou/Nebraska fan? By the way, I've been to too many KU losses in Memorial Stadium to count, and again, call me a snob but I think I deserve credit for standing for the whole game against K-State in the wet cold last year at Memorial Stadium. I probably made more enemies that day than any other day in my life by insulting other KU fans around me that had no clue. So, like Mike, don't throw this only care about one sport smack at me.

Ummm...do you expect to see several thousands show up at standard swimming and diving competitions with the same enthusiasm as basketball and/or football? Why do you think Bob Frederick was forced out? KU people were very upset about this.

You throw out a statement of typical KU mistreating a man who has contributed so much to a program, and you don't understand a comeback about the mistreatment of another man who contributed to another schools tradition? Umm...hello? Nice little woman joke there. And you call my retorts weak?

Why all of the extended arguements as you call them? Because I think bashing people for something that your team/school is even worse at is weak. I hate KU fans that bash KSU football and KSU fans that bash KU basketball, for example.

Comparing Tom Osbourne retiring to Roy Williams leaving? And you're accusing Mike of making invalid comparisons?

So let me get this straight, Dave. You throw in your bashing of KU fans when nobody said a thing about Missouri or Nebraska, but any retort to your out and out insult of KU fans is just out of line? Slam people for no reason whatsoever and then flee for the moral high ground. Well done, I suppose.

Mike and I have already made a big case as for why this hurts so much, so I'll defer to Scot Pollard when he said that nobody not related to the University of Kansas will truly understand why this hurts. Its not just about KU basketball, folks

 

It's like listening to an NUfan gripe about Tom Osbourne deciding to "betray us" by absconding with his exquisite offensive play calling for the "relaxing" life of a US congressman because they are stuck with the "mediocrity" of Solich. Never mind that Osbourne was treated the same way as Solich when he replaced DeVanney, Tom delivered a large part of what is claimed as NU's "tradition", or that Solich won more games than anyone ever has his first 3 seasons. Talk about ringing hollow.


As a born and raised Husker and having had season tickets in my family since I was six years old, I have yet to ever hear anyone gripe about Osbourne leaving. Sure, Solich is in the hot seat mostly because he thought he could call the plays, but his failure as a play caller has very little to do with Coach Tom's retirement. Sure, Osbourne was treated poorly after the departure of Devaney, but he soon won the respect of the Nebraska faithful with his playcalling, recruiting, and coaching prowess. Solich, on the other hand, has shown that he can win more games in his first three years than any other NU coach on the backs of Tom Osbourne's recruitments. What happens in the first year of an all-Solich class? P*ss-poor mediocrity. Another year like last and Solich is gone. If he's not, there's no justice in college football.

-Grendel-

 

It's not personally directed at anyone. It's directed at the larger majority of KUfan. By your post, the situation obviously exists, and that was my point.

Yes, at least to the larger events, it happens at many other institutions like NU, Stanford, Texas, UNC, Minnesota, Florida, UCLA, etc.

You miss my point. The whining that I have actually heard in the past from other Husker fans was real and had nothing to do with last year's record. To me, it rings just as hollow as KUfan whining about Roy's exit. The circumstances are different, but that dies not invalidate the comparison. My point is more that when fans are spoiled by a rediculous embarassment of riches, they lose sight of how lucky they are. The reality is, nobody else wants to hear your whining. I understand it hurts, but if anybody would take the time to use some degree of empathy or consider that the situation might just be better without Roy, maybe it would hurt KUfan a bit less. At the very least it would hurt the rest of the world's ears less.

 

My Dad was earned his Econ Master Degree in '73 at NU. All the above fits my memory also, but that wasn't the point. My post wasn't about Tom or the Bob-Father (I like that). It was about spoiled fans' reactions and how any hurdle is blown entirely out of proportion due to an extreme myopathy (lack of perspective).

 

Why all the discussion, the point is simple.

Roy claimed for years that loyalty to what you do matters most. He stayed three years ago on these exact principles. Last week he told us he was leaving while he preached these principles, all the time being nothing but a hypocrit. Then, to add insult, he's saying how two KU recruits shouldnt be punished for signing to play for a coach and not an institution. If Roy were so classy he'd follow the rule he knows; that talking to or about players already signed by another school is against NCAA policy. He wanted to leave for selfish reasons, and now wants to be able to sign the recruits he is leaving behind.

Its got nothing to do with Nebraska football or swim meets at other schools. Roy used KU to build himself, told us he'd be loyal, and stabbed us in the back. F--- off Roy. Plain and simple.

 

And my question again is frankly, who pi$$ed in your cheerios? Why is it necessary to kick people when they are down? And you wonder why I would say there's an obsession with KU.

You speak of big national competitions at schools with the best programs. Still, at these schools swimming and diving aren't the talk of campus by any means. Can't really say I'm all too interested in attending swimming and diving regardless of the school, but that doesn't absolve Bob Frederick for his incompetence in letting the programs die. He relied on only one donor for years, and didn't have any backup plan when the well ran dry on him. Its great that Roy loved him and all, but KU fans actually were upset that other KU sports were falling way behind under Frederick's watch. Its too bad that Hemenway choose that nutcase Al Bohl as a replacement, who was not recommended by the search committee I might add.

Ah yes, the term KUfan, a Jim Romism when for being condescending when addressing fans. Well anyway, we thought we were lucky. We saw what was happening at St. Bonaventure and Georgia. We remember how much of a jacka$$ Glen Mason was (good coach though). Williams meant a lot since it seemed like he was genuine when he said that in 2000 it was essentially the final showdown between UNC and KU. I was willing to accept whatever happened then, but when he said he's staying, that made him so much more popular and maybe we were crazy and spoiled to believe what he said during the press conference. Ben gets at it very well. Yes it was 15 years of great service, but its expected that fans will be mad when in 48 hours he goes against everything he stood for.

I'm fairly sure our next coach will be a good one, but I thought the same thing of UNC in 2000. Of course, I hope that Jennings and Hemenway aren't as narrow-minded as Baddour was then. Hopefully that penny-pinching Frderick desciple Konzem doesn't have much say in this.

Oh yes, the rest of the world has been so good to the state of Kansas "You Kansans should feel lucky that we only consider you just a notch below UNC." You say KU fans need empathy, but maybe its the rest of the world that needs empathy.