NSR Netherlands: Current events (in the world).

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Nov 14, 2015.

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  1. Dutch Treat

    Dutch Treat Member

    May 6, 2005
    Amsterdam|Alphen a/d Rijn
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    This. It is madness to explain your deeds. hiding behind a book. They are guidelines.

    There's a story about 2 buddhist monks who took a vow of silence, travelling between monestaries when they came across a river where a woman was crying because she was afraid to cross the river. The older monk noticed her, broke his vow of silence and asked her what was wrong.
    He then carried her ( he wasn't allowed to touch a woman either ) across the river making jokes to her for comfort. The younger monk was in shock seeing this, but remembered his vow of silence. Once the monks reached the other side, the woman thanked the monks and parted ways.
    The monks continued the journey but the younger one couldn't let what he just experienced go. At one point, he got so angry that he shouted at the other how he could break vows so easily, they were monks! How could he carry the woman across the river, even making jokes!
    The older monk replied : I let go of her the moment we reached the other side of the river. You on the other hand, are still carrying her with you.

    You can live by a book or believe, but when the situation asks for it just let go of it.
    I am not a buddhist but I like their way of thinking in general when it comes to believe systems.
     
  2. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    ^^^^ here you go. Of course O14 came back pretty quick :D
     
  3. Dutch Treat

    Dutch Treat Member

    May 6, 2005
    Amsterdam|Alphen a/d Rijn
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    You said I was demanding you to be banned as well. You also implied I was calling you names taking fsf post into account.
    I probobly shouldn't have posted that one liner, but it does explain a lot to me.
    Also, I am not as much of a 'lefty' as you assume I am . It depends what subject we are talking about whether I am left or right, liberal or conservative.
     
  4. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    And then there's also this little gem.

    Very disappointing debater that O14 fella is:

     
  5. Dutch Treat

    Dutch Treat Member

    May 6, 2005
    Amsterdam|Alphen a/d Rijn
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I already knew what post you were talking about. But what does it have to do with me?
     
  6. Dutch Treat

    Dutch Treat Member

    May 6, 2005
    Amsterdam|Alphen a/d Rijn
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Anyway, lets get back on topic.
     
  7. curbo

    curbo Member

    Apr 14, 2012
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Im talking about religions, how we talk about them most importantly, and that religions (atleast Christianity and Islam) are inherently fundementalistic (which I doubt anyone will deny?)

    I dislike the word christianity and i dislike the word Islam, i dont like them because they are incredibly poorly defined and not specific. I'd replace them with bible-based and quran-based religions/doctrines. I consider catholics and (pick any) protestant church to be a completely different religion despite being based on the same book. In Islam while its much less organised, there are clear distinctions to be made aswell. As we've done in this thread by specifying wahhabism. The nice woman in the video says Islam, but shes talking about wahhabism and simular intolerant quran based religions/doctrines.

    So what do I mean with religion? Its the collection of parts of the bible or quran you believe to be true(thus take literal). Everyone has or atleast starts out with an individuel and unique collection of parts of the books they believe in(or NOT). Its based on the insanely high number of variables that defines all of us and who we are. Can be tolerant or intolerant. But its individual. I might think very differently if my family was blown up at a wedding from a drone strike.

    And then comes organised religion, organised schools of collections of parts from the books. Not neccersarily denouncing parts of the book, but simply unconsciously ignoring them because they believe in other parts of the books. Because the books are packed with contradictions its really not possible to believe everything. And ofcourse, if you believe and focus on the real shitty parts of the books which tell you to DO bad things, then here the bad things come. Doesnt matter ofcourse wether its your individual religion or you are part of an organised religion based on these shitty parts.

    And if you are not fundamentalistic, if you dont take anything out of the books literally, but still consider yourself to be religious, then you are using the wrong word to describe your beliefs in my opinion. Book-based spiritualist would be more accurate. Like harry potter enthousiasts :)

    Thats how I look at this atleast. I dont like the books because there alot of crazy shit in there (Harry potter too if you'd take it literally and as a truth, imagine that) but what im so firmly against is to take anything out of them literally. Even if its the non-super violent stuff. Fundamentalism is anti-thought. It in no way benefits society and the progression of it.



    As to the process of when people radicalise, or when people start believing these shitty parts of the books. Its because they want to. I think it starts with feeling angry, not belonging, feeling discriminated against, resentment, injustice, you name it. And this is what we have to try to prevent in europe but its another story in the middle east. In europe a big big worry are the recruiters, charismatic manipulaters. In the moslim countries you will have the organised religious people encouraging and feeding these feelings too, which cant be difficult considering europeans and americans have and are giving the people alot to hate us for.

    So when you have all these feelings you will look for a way to tunnel it, to aim it at something. Lets call it a funnel- This can be religion, this can be nationalism, racism,anarchy, or anything. Religion is simply most likely in this situation, at this time and place. And something that I didnt think of untill you mentioned it, because of the origins of islam, and the prophet, it should be easier/morelikely for moslims to radicalise than for christians.

    But mostly why people believe the shitty parts i think is not a ''natural'' process. Its simply indoctrination and manipulation from a young age. Or not even from a young age. Manipulation can be done on anyone, nobody is immume, we are humans after all. Propaganda.
     
  8. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    No, you didnt. But 014 demanded I leave the room (which is basically saying you want someone gone).

    This is not having a mature debate
     
  9. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    I thought Al Queda is Shia Muslim (like Saudi Arabia) and ISIS is Suni Muslim (like Hezbollah, Iran) and they do not get along. Al Queda is fighting US and Western allies while ISIS do the same, but at the same time want to set up its own country. I'm not sure if education will work. Kids are brought up where their parents, brothers, sisters are killed and hatred are implanted and fed daily. It reminded me of what Pol Pot did to the Cambodians, started a country with young children where he could indoctrinate them. It takes a change of leaders/governments to change the society and I do not see it will happen. This is a mess that will drag on and on, almost like the conflict between Palestine and Israel. When there is no compromise, there will be no end.
     
  10. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    No I was referring to the like DT gave you and how he thinks you are on to something here. Yes I understand you two do not share the same positions, but it remains funny. Also you do not get to cry victim of anything when literally your first post in this thread was going after me personally, all while your grievances would dictate going after another. That was weird. Besides you use "demonizing" in connection with me, which is a loaded word and so again you accuse me of something you initiate yourself. Zoals de waard is vetrouwt hij zijn gasten. Anyway enough. I see you have started to contribute after this and so I am going to move on. These interactions are childish and disruptive for the thread. They really lower the quality of the discourse and that bothers me.

    Well yes, there is that dimension, but the stat I posted was from the election round before this latest round earlier this year before those attacks. My snackbar holder was a big Erdogan fan and you might underestimate how much they love the guy and that is not only for stability. They truly love his religious agenda (most in the Netherlands come from the more religious rural areas. Besides they perfectly know he puts journalists in jail and they just don't care. They will make excuses and vote for their great leader anyway. We now know how many value the concept of freedom up to what point (with your explenation any semi security reasons will tip them over) and that is not much. That means we have a giant group in our midst that is IMO a threat to freedom, however you look at that and it is gross to me.
     
  11. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Match against Germany cancelled because of a suspicious suitcase in the stadium.
     
  12. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yeah, if it is nothing then that is what terrorists can do. They make people nervous as hell and make them suspicious of everything. Bit of paranoia.
     
  13. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    An ambulance with explosives in it? Then the threat is real. Unbelievable. That is actually pretty sophisticated. :(
     
  14. Dutch Treat

    Dutch Treat Member

    May 6, 2005
    Amsterdam|Alphen a/d Rijn
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yes. An ambulance. That is alarming.
     
  15. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yes it really is. It is learning and it is becoming smarter. Props to Germans. Great catch.
     
  16. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    That shit's straight out of criminal minds
     
  17. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Do you mean that KSA is shia and Iran is sunni or do I read that wrong?
     
  18. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    Thank you for the correction. I typed it backwards. Sunnis is with KSA and Shia is in Iran. I'm still pissed about a football match is cancelled because of terrorist plan to attack.
     
    DRB300 repped this.
  19. Well, I came in the thread on the page where you tackled the men and not the ball. I had no idea of the "debate" before you refer to and on which I should be bothered by. I donot like what was being said in the run up to where I started joining in, now I read it.
     
  20. DRB300, of course it is a problem first for Muslims. They kill Muslims by a factor excessively higher than other people. So you bet it is their problem first if they donot want to die by their hands. But calling out the victims for not denouncing the people that kill them by claiming to be the superior version of them seems to me a tad daft.
     
  21. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    The turkish fans didnt respect the minute of silence imposed by the UEFA

    And I actually can understand since no one asked France to make one when people died in Ankara last month.
     
  22. Those were Kurds.
     
  23. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    Doesnt matter, happened in Turkey, a country in the UEFA zone
     

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