Here is a post from a local youth forum regarding the issues of MLS and Peter Nowak's coaching attitude. To those "fair weather" fans who are always happy with a win despite an empty stadium, this is very relevant: "Local soccer" with your remark: "When Arena was coaching DC United played an attractive possession oriented game..." If it was so attractive, why did DC United not sell out their home games? You would think that a "National professional champion" (3x) would be the easiest sell in the book, but during the championship years (when I was part of MLS) and the years soon after, DC United could not attract over 15,000 (and many of those were given tickets). You credit Arena for basically doing NOTHING for local soccer. Possession soccer, yes, Winning, yes, but when a youth team wins state cup but none of it's players make the national team, what has that team done for it's area and future generations? NOTHING. Arena created nothing. No exciting players came from his era. MLS has been a development arena for American college players, yes, (and that was a good thing up to a point) but my retort to you was that your feelings toward soccer and knowledge during those early MLS years show you know little of what their mission was then and what it is supposed to be now: That is, MLS exists to: 1. Develop the "American" player with a quest to have a top pool of players that can WIN (not just compete) the World Cup in 2010. You heard me correct in your head, WIN IT 6 years from now! 2. To sell tickets to games. Turninig in profits after 5 years. Well, they have a team than can "compete" on the World stage and maybe with Freddy they have a shot at winning it. But until I see some world class defenders, fullbacks and attacking midfielders to compliment Adu, Beasley, Donovan, and Wolff they will fall short of that goal. BIG TIME. But my concern is the 2nd goal of the mission: Selling tickets so that when we watch soccer, there is an excitng atmosphere that demands to be entertained. As you say, the product is poor. Well, we have had 30 years to right the wrongs of the NASL, but these same people and their cronies after 8 years, going 9, of operation have still got it wrong. They hire people who think that a winning mentality with disciplined soccer is the way to attract the masses. WRONG!! WRONG!!! WRONG!!! You can have a losing record in this 10 team league and still make the play offs, so NO, winning is not important. Fans have voted with their absence that they are NOT impressed with winning records. 20 million youth soccer families registered in this country and less than 1 million attend a season of games. Disgraceful! Millions of foreigners reside here and love the game from their homelands but cannot lift a finger to switch on an MLS game, never mind pay to watch one at 10 different venues. WHY? Everytime we have an event like "opening day" this or that on national TV, we screw it all up with average to boring peformances and wonder why nobody wants to buy the rights to soccer games unless they are foreign teams. It is all about ENTERTAINMENT and if you do not see this and understand this, then you are worse off than I imagined. Freddy Adu is the entertainment master of the game in America today. Only fearful and controlled coaching can "hurt" him. That coaching has hurt American soccer for decades and is one of the main reasons why inner city soccer still lacks full-time clubs/facilities where millions of kids can play freely, creatively and all day instead of hanging out on street corners. The future of America's success lies in nurturing this untouched, uncorrupted market of "entertainers." Even now under John Harkes, DC United's youth system is built just for middle class kids to play Super Y League over the summer and pay almost $1000 for the privilige. Harkes wants to build a system modeled on the European system of academies. Hahahaha, well UEFA have stated that the academy system in Europe has failed. That fewer creative players come from European teams because of the lack of daily "street soccer" in their societies. The youth are too structured and it reflects in the generation of players that they are developing despite the millions of dollars on state of the art facilities and well paid coaches. Look at the coaches hired to work with the DCU Super Y kids: None of them have developed a player from 6 years old to adult in their lives, and never worked in the inner city or with Hispanic kids and nurtured their enthusiasm to be a quality player. Sure, they can show you a history of B.S. championships, but ask them where they got their players from. How many D4 travel or rec teams did they coach and develop to be ODP stars or college level players? It is easy to manage talented athletes and experienced players but try nurturing raw players from the grassroots, now that is coaching, and MLS has ignored this group for too long. Imagine. 25,000 came to RFK to see Freddy. People drove 8 hours or flew from the West Coast to be at the game. All just because of him. Now imagine a team of Freddies, or a league of Freddies. That is what MLS and US Soccer has failed us with. That is why Nowak is a fool like Hudson, Rongen and Arena before him. That is why you do not get it and sadly, may never get the chance to get it. The masses will only come when the product is brilliant. When the players are great entertainers. Those entertainers are not in college today and are not in any middle class travel youth system. But there is a club in America that is working on nurturing these future greats and there are programs scattered with minimal funding that just might develop another Freddy. They are just not linked in to the system of fools yet. But their time will come, whether by 2010 remains to be seen.
I don't dare reply in anything like the depth this deserves, but: "no". The coach's job is to win games. And that is the end of his job. If he wins games, he will be a hero. If he does not, he will be fired. It the masses find that entertaining, so be it. The operative quote here can be found in "Fever Pitch": "If you want entertainment, go watch clowns."
With due respect, what in the hell is this on about? I think some of the context of that this is culled from is missing.
Seriously, where does one begin? I know that in every diamond one can find a flaw, but I think that you are just about to displace Mr. T Flannigan for most "interesting" mind on bigsoccer. By the way, once upon a time 57,432 "fools" stood through 45 deg rain to watch Bruce Arena's team. At the time, that was the largest non-Unification Church wedding crowd at RFK. I met people who drove from further than 8 hours to see that. In fact, there's this guy named "revelation" you might want to chat with...and his buddy "vicar." I seem to recall them coming from mighty far away for many matches in the past. Cheers, Tim Yes, the mighty MeridianFC has edited this post for an un PC term. If you would like to know more don't hesitate to call
Ok, I'll bite. 1. What the heck is koppite? 2. You have many hidden agendas. Rather than playing 20 questions, why don't you just tell us what they are. 3. Either you like contradicting yourself, you're not too bright, or English is not your first language- in which case it must have taken you a long time to work out that carefully constructed piece of bending-in-upon-itself logic you call a paragraph, above. 4. You know all the acronyms surrounding youth soccer. Smells like a parent. So, out with it or we'll roast you.
It's Fro Adu. Kidding aside, if "fans" don't want to come watch a winning team, I could give a rat's ass if they show up or not. Either they like soccer or they don't. We've all had enough of trying to cater to people who think the circus are entertainment (like shootouts, clocks that stop on whistles and Lothar/Luis-like stars). It's a team game and Nowak is balls-on right to try and win games. As for Freddy -- his time will come. Until he's earned his starting spot and his body can take 30 matches of 90 minutes, he's not a starter. Get over it.
OK, this is what concerns me: "Now imagine a team of Freddies, or a league of Freddies. That is what MLS and US Soccer has failed us with. That is why Nowak is a fool like Hudson, Rongen and Arena before him. That is why you do not get it and sadly, may never get the chance to get it." I think there are cults that you should look into, because short of cloning, I'm not seeing where you are headed...Are you saying that because MLS and US Soccer found Freddy now, but somehow missed his 150 best buds that we are fools somehow for believing that the match this past Saturday was about more than just Freddy? By the way, that's mostly rhetorical, I'd hate to see the response, honestly. Tim
The Kop is the home end at Anfield, home of Liverpool FC (though IIRC there's also an end at Sheffield Wendesday FC's Hillsborough with that same designation)
Well at least get your "facts" straight... DC United has averaged more than 15K per game each and every season (IIRC). And yes, I know that I drove 7+ hours each way for the 1999 & 2000 seasons because of Freddy Adu. In conclusion, I think MLS & DC United are indeed abominations to football (soccer) the world over. Bruce Arena, Thomas Rongen, Ray Hudson, and Piotr Nowak should never be allowed near a U-7 side let alone a professional club. In addition, FIFA should ban them from ever attending a game - just to keep "the game" safe from their evil influence. However, when MLS finally realizes that getting Adu, Raul, Beckham, Ballack, Zidane, Henry, Campbell, Ferdinand, Viera, Cole, and Kahn to play as the first XI of DC United, then people will come out in droves and everything will be alright...
Yep. 2003: 15,565 2002: 16,519 2001: 21,518 2000: 18,580 1999: 17,419 1998: 16,008 1997: 16,698 1996: 15,262
Yes, the mighty MeridianFC has edited this post for an un PC term. If you would like to know more don't hesitate to call[/QUOTE] Thank you oh Mighty one. I fear that my PC ability is declining in more ways than one. Tim
I have a funny feeling the person who wrote that prefers instant coffee, microwave popcorn and drive-thru meals. It's been eight years and a weekend. Deal.
The points made from the post in the youth forum follow a thread that explains: 1. Freddy Adu should have started Saturday to promote the personalities and romance of the game on National and International TV 2. That Peter Nowak is neither a good a coach or a bad coach because he won a game. But rather a fool for not "promoting" the game by starting Freddy and playing a more attacking style of soccer (following fools like Hudson, Rongen and Arena). It is HIS responsibilty to please his public. Winning is not enough. 3. If Nowak loses next week, will those "fair weather" fans then come on here and bash him? 4. That the lack of major investment in inner city youth soccer in America has left out a market of great athletes who could be great soccer players of the future, given a chance in the system run by fools (MLS and US Soccer). 5. That UEFA has criticized the lack of creative players in their academies due to no street soccer and thus John Harkes' vision of a DC United Academy based on European models is flawed and ignorant. 6. That one Freddy is not enough to win the World Cup in 2010 but that we need a league of Freddies and they are not going to be found in college. 7. That MLS (professional soccer in America) is not about winning but entertaining. If you can have a losing record and qualify for play offs, then winning has little to do with it. 15,000 (but for for double headers and play offs) demonstrates that DC United is not entertaining its public even after 3 MLS titles. 8. Nowak is a novice and thinks that discipline and controlled soccer is the way forward, when hundreds of coaches in America have tried this and gained nothing. It is time for a NEW philosophy: To abandon this fear of losing and open the floodgates and pick players who can create with flair and imagination and speed and let them play fluent combination soccer and show great moves. We need this style to be our entertainment, not a style where we are begging for a player to score from his one chance. If our players are happy and confident, it will show in their game and we will enjoy watching. Of course, there were hundreds that left RFK happy Saturday because it was a decent performance with 2 good goals and a few other chances and they won. There were thousands more that were bored. I was certainly one of them and I agree that coaches in MLS do not get it. We lost millions on Saturday.
I think the following is more realistic: You are projecting your unrealistic expectations onto "millions". Personally, I think that I speak for millions more than you, but I wouldn't come straight out and say as much the way you did. Tim
Lots of Nowak bashing, say Koppite you're not a disgruntle former coach or asst coach for DCU, are you? K
If that game bored you then please go away -- you obviously just don't like soccer. A few ideas you might like now that you've got a bit of free time on your hands: Fear Factor Super Jackpot Lottoball Cow Tipping Jerry Springer's Greatest Hits The 'Faces of Death' video series 'Superbowl Halftime Shows: 1966-2004 A Retrospective' Monday Night Crucifixions The making of Die Hard XIV (hosted by Troy McClure) 'Satan Ate My Baby, the Unauthorized Bio of Tammy Faye Baker'
Strange, I was thinking Grahame L. Jones after the second post...after all, he was the one with the hell-bent for leather grudge against Bruce for all the times that coach Arena called him out for the arrogant loony that he was. Tim
If you do not think that an international media represents millions then I pity you that you do not see the significance. I know of at least 12 countries' media folk that were very eager to see how Freddy played on his debut and while he did not set the stage alight, they were more disappointed in his lack of a start. While this country continues to promote average athletes like Olson (remember how he was supposed to be your saviour?), Albright & AJ Wood (how did they ever get to start in pro soccer?) and Convey (he was supposed to be the best 16 year old ever, right?) and leave the real deals like Adu sitting on the bench because of coaching ego and blind idealogy (win at all costs), then we will see more and more people leave MLS and go to other countries to play and experience the game. Adu will start soon, score goals and thrill the public. But we lost a great opportunity to let him excite the masses Saturday (instead of the 15-18,000 you can expect at RFK this season) and get them fixed. Freddy was eager to play and he lost that adrenalin the longer the game wore on. He even said to the media how he was disappointed to not play earlier in the game. Says it all.
Wow, Serie Zed, if that game excited you, I bet you love watching golf, chess, fishing as just a few of your leisure activities. Thank goodness people like you do not go to English Premier League games.
i just don't see how anyone could have been bored at saturday's match, personally i would have pissed in my sock rather than miss a second. but even if you didn't like the teams, tactics, selection--it still was a damn nice atmosphere and fun, if not particularly well-played game.
I can only assume that koppite4ever meant to post this on a "Houllier Out" thread on the Liverpool forum. People in glass houses...
Just a point of order ... http://www.gotsoccer.com/forum The posts start at 4/3/2004 9:04:00 PM, and koppite4ever's username there is coach.
It doesn't say anything, actually. I'm sure every single DC United player who didn't start was disappointed to not play earlier (or at all); as a professional, you want to play every minute you can, and you're disappointed if you don't. There is absolutely nothing to be taken from that. You also seem to think that the game would have been more entertaining if Adu had gone in earlier, which I don't understand at all. Maybe it woul have, but maybe it wouldn't. I didn't see Adu do anything wonderful in the 30 minutes that he played, and I'm not convinced that more minutes on the field would have produced any more exciting moments. In fact, it's quite possible that Freddy could have played 60 minutes and done nothing special at all. Then you have these hordes of "international media" who have nothing to report except that Freddy Adu played 60 minutes and looked like an average player. That hardly seems like a good way to cash in on this 'grand event'.