Nov/Dec matches - Nov 28 and Dec 1

I’m going with what HAO said on Sam Mewis’ podcast. Mewis affirmed what hao said and they then discussed why that was reasonable at the time.

 

Ok, well, I'm looking at the actual CBA's, and then verifying with how many players a coach would call in during a calendar year. For example, by my count, Andonovski called in 36 players in 2022 (the new CBA wasn't signed until September of that year). Even in 2021, the year started out with a training camp of 27 players, and several not in January camp got called in later during the year. For sure, Hayes capped a lot more players in a calendar year than previous coaches, and thank God for it, but we don't have to exaggerate the restrictions of the previous CBA's to make that point.

 

Back in 2014 the one elite club I remember was Sweden’s Malmo which featured Press & Marta among others but they went shortly bankrupt trying to payroll its players. It beat PSG(who had Heath & Heaps) in the Champions League semis.
Otherwise it was Lyon winning six CL titles for that decade—-though they were even envious of the sell out crowds that the Portland Thorns were getting.
Barca started investing in it’s woso by late 2010’s but it’s England’s WSL that really started the 2020’s trend with buying Sam Kerr & an host of Americans(Morgan, Mewis, Lavelle, Heath, Press). Right now it’s the most popular league for NT players from England, Japan, Australia, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands.

to be fair, the NWSL has started to invest a lot of money too and strongly recruited especially from Africa & Brazil, but in my book lagging an notch behind compared to what that the WSL recruited

 

Going back to the origin of our conversation, I'm very happy with where the USWNT is today. I still believe they're ahead of any other national team, in terms of depth. I think bringing on Emma as manager was a home run hire and we've seen loads of new talent on display this past year. It will be fun watching this team play in future tournaments against other top teams.

 

If that's how you want to defend the worst performance by the USWNT in a world cup in history, managing to win only one game - against Viet Nam, with personal insults, that's on you. From what I've seen of the world, when debating someone the options are a) logical counter-arguments; b) personal attacks. It looks like you quickly exhausted a.

I'm not on here to trade insults with people. I'm too old, there's too little time left.

 

Who's defending the worst etc? I'm defending the English language. They were highly competitive, to the point where they did not lose. They simply did not win.

From dictionary.com: "It is commonly used to describe someone or something that is able to succeed against or stay even with others in the same contest or setting,"

And I have been here quite as long as you, and am thoroughly familiar with your posting style and your hatred of a CBA that served its purpose and is now expired. If I were out to insult you I'd have done so long before this-- I'm just trying to suggest to you that it often does not read well, and seems ridiculous.

And I'm pretty damn old myself.

 

Dunno, I wouldn’t call it a red flag but maybe orange/warning as this year the US lost three home games—one against lightly regarded Portugal. Home town losses against Brazil & Japan equally important as the former is going to be thr next WC host, the latter’s players keep on improving since their decisive win earlier this year at the SBC.
Hopefully US takes the next SBC more seriously & tries to put it’s best foot down & no more ‘we’re building’ crap—-as other countries are doing the same & some like Japan looking better at it

 

Shame on me for listening to HAO and Mewis.

Do you have a link for the CBA that expired in 2022. I'm looking at an MOA that was an exhibit in Alex Morgan's lawsuit. It says that "at all times there will be 24 players under contract."

There were "floaters." This is how Chatgpt describes them:

Under that CBA, USSF budgeted for:

• 22–24 contracted players (varied slightly by year)
  
  
• A smaller group of “floaters” who earned elevated match & camp fees but did not receive USSF contracts
  

Floaters were players who were called up frequently enough to earn the higher non-contracted rates.

Because floaters were a budget line item, the federation typically managed the number to around:
4 to 6 floaters per year

So, we're talking a tippy-top maximum of 30 players that the coach could call in, in a calendar year.

And a USWNT contract was for FOUR years. Morgan v. U.S. Soccer Federation - Plaintiffs' Notice of Motion and Motion for Partial Summary Judgment; Memorandum of Points & Authorities in Support.

If you're trying to say that the old CBA, under which contracts were four years(!) and the Fed only allowed a tippy-top of 30 call ins didn't wildly handcuff what a manager could do with his/her roster, I just don't know what to say.

The CBA beginning in 2022 was signed in May, according to the US Soccer Federation U.S. Soccer Federation, Women’s And Men’s National Team Unions Agree To Historic Collective Bargaining Agreements

Also, that's enough, but since I had ChatGPT look it up, 29 players were capped in 2021, the last full year of the CBA.


✅ Full List of the 29 Players Who Appeared in 2021
Goalkeepers (3)

1. Alyssa Naeher
   
   
2. Adrianna Franch
   
   
3. Jane Campbell
   

Defenders (8)
4. Becky Sauerbrunn
5. Abby Dahlkemper
6. Tierna Davidson
7. Kelley O’Hara
8. Crystal Dunn
9. Emily Sonnett
10. Casey Krueger
11. Alana Cook

Midfielders (7)
12. Julie Ertz
13. Lindsey Horan
14. Rose Lavelle
15. Sam Mewis
16. Kristie Mewis
17. Andi Sullivan
18. Catarina Macario

Forwards (11)
19. Alex Morgan
20. Megan Rapinoe
21. Tobin Heath
22. Christen Press
23. Carli Lloyd
24. Lynn Williams
25. Sophia Smith
26. Mallory Pugh
27. Midge Purce
28. Margaret “Midge” Purce
29. Ashley Hatch

(Note: Midge Purce appears only once in the count — included above; the list reflects 29 unique players total.)

 

?? since there was really only one Purce, and she definitely appears twice in that count, that certainly looks like 28. Wasn't there another keeper? Pookie?

 

I'm a male and an old male at that but I also think that Hayes has already fixed the stagnate and repressive culture that has been creeping into soccer and women's sports. The team looks better than at anytime I in the last 19-15 years or so. and the players seem happier than I have ever seen them. The passion for women's soccer is not back to where it was in the late 1990s and up to the attack of mediocracy that Vlatko Andonovski brought to the USA. Yes, I know that he is coaching the best team in the NWSL but club coaching and national team coaching are very different animals like there is a world of difference between a crayfish and a lobster. (Although both are quite tasty when properly prepared and served.) BUT Hayes does have the team moving forward rapidly and the passion should return before the next WWC.
But, even more important for me, is that the USA Women's Soccer Team is now fun to watch and the question at most matches is not "if" they score but how many they score.
While I have not agreed with everything Hayes has done, if I did agree with everything then the USWNT would be in huge trouble, I think her achievements to date with the USWNT is little short of miraculous. She seems to have fixed the attitude that had been pervasive where players looked upon national team duties as a drudge but now they all seem to be having fun and that makes them play better.
So, to quote (possibly misquote) an old song:
"I've got to admit its getting better a little better all the time."

 

ya, if Purce is double counted, that makes it 28. If you want to fact check it and provide a list of everyone capped in 2021, have at it. I think you'll find that it was less than 29 or less.

 

There are dictionary definitions and there is sports jargon. That's why when I was trying to learn Spanish, I quit reading the sports section of La Opinion. Words have distinct meanings in a sports context. If you think 1 win against Viet Nam is "competitive" and have the compare our "zero losses" to Spain's 6 wins, 1 loss (when they were already though). I'm just going to walk away from that. (Finally).

I'm not saying I hate that CBA. I'm saying that all this gushing about comparing the number of players Emma has brought in to what past managers did, and activating the U-23's, where that would have been kind of a waste of money in the past with WNT players on 4 year contracts. It's wildly disingenuous to imply that prior WNT managers could have done the same. It's ridiculous.

That CBA served it's purpose.* It was well-structured for it's time. It's just crazy to compare what managers did under it, and under the present conditions.

"I were out to insult you I'd have done so long before this" A bully says what? Dude, you go to personal attacks realllllly quickly. I've had you on ignore before. When I get reallllllly bored, I click "show ignored comments." At some point, I thought "oh, ol' TJ has mellowed" and took you off. That's ok. Back you go.

Just to clear up your recollection/perception of my POV in past discussions ... my beef was never with the CBA. It made sense. My beef was that during the Equal Pay battle, it was never mentioned that the WNT had 4 year contracts, paid whether you were called in or not*, with health insurance. That was never discussed.

I think the way Equal Pay was resolved, was fantastic, btw. And, I think Cindy Cone belongs in the US Soccer HOF as an administrator. Besides the early days Fed Heads who were friggin doing the laundry, Cone has had a bigger impact than anyone else. By far. And, probably bigger than anyone ever will: Oversaw the Equal Pay resolution; brought in Emma; brought in Poch. The men may disappoint at the WC, who knows. But, bringing in Poch was huge. Cone is Legend.

 

Casey Murphy started two matches against Australia late in the year. There are a bunch of players who appeared in those matches that are not on the list.

 

Names? Games?

 

https://www.ussoccer.com/uswnt-lineups/2021

Murphy
Fox
Balcer
Weaver
Sanchez
Dorsey

Purce also played in both matches but I'm not sure which one, it might have been a third Midge Purce that wasn't on your list.

 

That's different then. Never mind.

But I still think it is silly to say that a team that did not lose at all in a competition, that tied a majority of its games was "not competitive."

 

I stand corrected. That was probably a pain in the @SS to sort through that. Thank you.

 

Previous FIFA rankings had Spain over USA by just one point, but the updated one released just yesterday got them strengthening their grip by 37 points. US can take comfort that they’re ahead of #3 Germany by 47 points, England stays at the #4, and then less than one point separates #5-7 Sweden Brazil & France. Japan at #8(their problem is it’s all road games during open window week). Apparently the Dennis Rodman led FIFA love em North Koreans as their ranked #9 despite Russia only opponent they’ve played quite a while. Canada remains at the #10 even though they’ve lost their last 5 friendlies.
US has a couple of friendlies planned in January against those big titans; #46 & #47 Paraguay & Chile—though not sure if they’ll be televised or what’s deemed a closed game.
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On a personal note; my daughter who coaches mid school, led her unbeaten squad to an semifinals birth to something called the Gulf Coast Middle School Championship Unfortunately our next opponent we’re facing is a Catholic school who got practically an all ECNL select/travel squad & mostly on free athletic scholarships in an otherwise expensive school(they’ve been resending scouts & recruiting from district as well)
Those great poets from Sweden(ABBA) said it or sang it best; MONEY MONEY MONEY it’s a rich man’s world!

 

"Money, money, money's what the world runs on;
so give me some
and watch me run.
Watch me run with it 'till it all runs out.
When my money's gone, watch them kick me out
in the cold.
With no money..."

(The Lost Gonzo Band--sounds like Nunn, but it might have been Ims or Cowboy Bob-- it is really hard to find.)

 

Watched the U-23's v England.
Dahlien dominated down the left
Adames goal was a beauty and she played well
Sentnor actually looked fast. And not just on her peach of a goal.
Shores was pretty nifty with her pressure resistance.
Tiernan did come in the game, despite what the Fed said. But, she didn't do anything.

 

Also just to clarify, I don't think any of us are fundamentally disagreeing here. I just hate when people use misinformation or exaggerate facts to make their point. I'd rather discuss things with actual facts and with nuance, but I know that seems to have disappeared these days.

On that note, since your original statement was about players getting called into camp and because players who get called into camp do get paid (so it's not just players capped), there were 39 players called into camp in 2021 (in parentheses is the first camp in the year when they were called in):

Players called into at least one camp in 2021:
GOALKEEPERS (7): Bella Bixby (Nov friendlies), Aubrey Bledsoe (Jan camp), Jane Campbell (Jan camp), Adrianna Franch (June friendlies), Ashlyn Harris (Jan camp), Casey Murphy (SheBelieves), Alyssa Naeher (Jan Camp)
DEFENDERS (12): Alana Cook (Jan camp), Abby Dahlkemper (Jan camp), Tierna Davidson (Jan camp), Crystal Dunn (Jan camp), Emily Fox (Jan camp), Sofia Huerta (Nov friendlies), Ali Krieger (Jan camp), Casey Krueger (Olympics), Kelley O’Hara (Jan camp), Midge Purce (Jan camp), Becky Sauerbrunn (Jan camp), Emily Sonnett (Jan camp)
MIDFIELDERS (9): Julie Ertz (Jan camp), Lindsey Horan (Jan camp), Jaelin Howell (Jan camp), Rose Lavelle (Jan camp), Catarina Macario (Jan camp), Kristie Mewis (Jan camp), Samantha Mewis (Jan camp), Ashley Sanchez (Nov friendlies), Andi Sullivan (Jan camp)
FORWARDS (11): Bethany Balcer (Nov friendlies), Ashley Hatch (Nov friendlies), Tobin Heath (Olympics send-off camp), Carli Lloyd (Jan camp), Alex Morgan (SheBelieves), Christen Press (SheBelieves), Mallory Pugh (Jan camp), Megan Rapinoe (Jan camp), Sophia Smith (Jan camp), Lynn Williams (Jan camp), Morgan Weaver (Nov friendlies)

Also under no CBA were USWNT players ever on a 4-year contract. At most, they were on a yearly contract. Under most CBA's though, players themselves have talked about contracts being re-evaluated twice a year (Carli Lloyd, I know, mentioned this in her book.).

And, the fact that USWNT players were on contracts and that it was different than the men's structure was discussed ad nauseam around here and in the media. Where it wasn't brought up in discussion, and what you're likely referring to, is by the women themselves and by the "media" that were taking the women's side. That's not surprising since they were presenting their argument, trying to get the best deal possible for themselves.

I'll also point out that there are probably at least 5 threads in this forum on the CBA and with links and info to the previous CBA's and the MOU. The only CBA we never actually saw was the one right before the current one since it wasn't a part of any of the earlier legal issues. But, details did get leaked about that CBA as well, such as that it dropped the total number of contracts yearly; it was down to 22 contracts in 2017/2018 and kept decreasing. I think it got down down to about 18 contracts, meaning some players regularly called in to the USWNT under the previous CBA were not under contract, and Vlatko did not have to call them in.