Notes From The MLS Combine and National Team Scrimmages

Knave · Jan 10, 2004

This thread is intended for DC United supporters, so I'm leaving a lot out. If you're looking for broader information you might try the MNT boards or the Youth National Team board. I'm pretty focused on DC United players below, and really just on the U-23 DC United players. But if you've got a question I might be able to answer just post it below and I'll see I can do.

:::: Day One ::::

AM Game :::: U-23s (4) :: (1) Blue Star ::::
PM Game :::: U-23s (1) :: (3) MNT ::::

There weren’t too many people there for either match, forty at most this morning and this evening. Many of them were friends and family of the players. From the scrape marks on their knuckles I could tell some were LA Galaxy supporters. And then there was an assortment of MLS-folk. Sigi “The Hut” waddled to and fro. Andrulis looked very woodsman-like as usual. Sarachan, who showed up only tonight, is still very, very short. It was only when I walked down the sideline at halftime this morning to try to get a better look at what I presumed to be the MNT practicing on the next field over that I noticed Bruce Arena with Onalfo and Company in tow sitting on the sideline watching the U-23s play the Blue Star. Never did figure out who was practicing over there …

The morning game was really low key, a slightly surreal, highly skilled Saturday morning pick-up soccer game. They let anyone on the field to stand by the sideline, there were hardly any fouls, no yelling – in short it was ultra-friendly. That said, both teams took it pretty seriously and it was by no means a mere kick-about with a bit of laundry serving as goals. In the end the U-23s beat the Blue Star 4–1.

The afternoon game between the U-23s and the full nats was much more formal. They wouldn’t actually let spectators on the field for that one but you could easily watch from the behind the endline fence. It was a much more intense match, even featured one yellow card. Unfortunately, however, partly because I was further away from the field but mostly because it was getting dark and the lights weren’t optimal, it’s hard for me to comment in too much detail. I simply had too much trouble telling some players apart. (How many blonde haired midfielders does the USA have!?) I’ll give some specifics though and one or two examples. The final score was 3-1 to the full nats. But the U-23s had some great chances and one shot rang off the crossbar. I missed the goal, however. At halftime it was 1-1. Warren (playing on the “A” team for that match) let in one soft goal. I’m starting to think he has a tendency to let balls get underneath him, particularly in one-on-one situations with the shooter. Then the second teams came on and the full nats got two more goals. I think Countess was in goal in the second half but he was just a blurry dot from where I stood. If the scoreline were to reflect the reality of the match it probably would have been 2-1 to the full nats. They were better than the U-23s but not quite 3-1 better.

But back to the morning game since that’s what I can comment on most. The first half against the Blue Star was scoreless. Neither Landon nor Conor Casey had the will to shoot the ball. This was not for lack of opportunity, but apparently neither could really be bothered. Casey wasn’t bad though, certainly better than the last time I really saw him play back in Sidney. But, alas, his problem wasn’t finishing, it was shooting. Convey took the middle and played well. The offense went pretty much through Convey, Beasley, Landon and Casey and although they all linked up together pretty well it just wasn’t happening in front of the net.

Judging by his performance today Brian Carrol is a terribly under-rated player. (He’s called BC in the parlance of Nat Borchers who, incidentally, organizes a defense pretty well and quite loudly). Carrol happens to be a nifty little player. Amongst other things, he made some terrific runs into space out of the midfield and if he and Convey were more in sync he might have gotten a shot or two on goal. It was not to be, however. Still, he’s a guy who’s equally good in defense and offense, in short a real versatile midfielder who should be getting playing time with DC United next season.

The second half saw a wholesale substitution on the U-23 side. Blue Star put in Memo, Suarez and Klinsmann; adding to a core that already included Lalas and Steve Shak. I’ve heard it said that when Jurgen practices with the Galaxy he’s the still the best player on the field. Well if that’s the case then the Galaxy must be pretty bad in practice. His skill still shines through but he’s just not the player he used to be.

Eski, Stokes and Warren took the field for the U-23s in the second half. Warren was a surprisingly vocal organizer of his defense. The rap against him during the season was that he was too stand-offish and didn’t really command his box vocally. Perhaps he’s worked on this since the Petke incident because he was a master of his domain today. He actually started the day’s second match against the MNT. I was standing behind the goal so I got to hear quite well just how vocal he can be. He was damned good, kept his box organized, made some good saves, distributed the ball well – no complaints. Well, maybe one complaint. It was a difficult save but I still think he could have done better with the goal he let in. It was basically a one on one situation and the ball just got under him. My sense was that he had time to make the save though. Maybe I’m wrong. I don’t have the benefit of a replay. But I seem to recall other times when the ball just got under him. Maybe there’s something there he needs to work on. But still, going up against the MNT he acquitted himself very well. I said it before but as I see it he has what it takes to be a starting goalkeeper in MLS and he should be challenging Rimando for the number one spot. From what I saw today he’s already the best goalkeeper on the Olympic team.

The revelation of the day, however, was Stokes. I’d never seen him play before, all I knew was what I read on the boards and what Ray Hudson said. Don’t get me wrong, he wasn’t the best defender on the team but he certainly was in the same league as the best defender on the field. That league is MLS quality. There’s no question in my mind that he can play in MLS and do so quite solidly. That Ray Hudson refused to give him even one minute of time on the field speaks either to his idiocy or his prejudice against youth. His play today, especially in the second game, was damning evidence against Ray Hudson’s judgment upon his playing ability. He did very well this morning, including a couple key plays against Klinsmann. But tonight I really made a point of watching him – partly because he was one of the guys I could identify from my vantage point with ease. He was worth watching though. He kept his mark well, executed a few well timed dispossessions, made some nice passes, helped in the transition to offense and generally held his own quite capably against a very high level of competition. The U-23s were under constant attack and Stokes was certainly up to the task. He only made one real mistake: a miss-weighted clearance that ended up at the feet of someone on the other team. So be it, as if our other defenders don’t make an errant pass or two on occasion. The big surprise was how good an attacking player he is. One sequence in particular really got my attention. He took the ball down the wing, orchestrated a couple triangular passes between himself and some midfielders, got the ball into the corner and hit what was probably the prettiest cross of the night. It was perfect and it’s just a shame that none of the forwards could quite get their heads to it. It was one of the best chances of the game for the U-23s. I had no idea Stokes could help like that with offense. He’s tall too and could be a real asset on corner kicks. With him up there maybe we’ll even score off one. Imagine that! Stokes can play in MLS. There’s no question in my mind about that. That Hudson didn’t see it that way, given what I saw today, is just baffling.

On the other hand … Eski, Eski, Eski … It’s truly amazing. He’s got two legs but apparently only one foot. After one remarkable play this morning in which he did his best Etcheverry by fumbling about with the ball trying to get it to his left foot instead of taking what should have been an easy right footed shot, Thomas Rongen screamed “Alecko! You’re allowed to use your other foot!” But what really killed Alecko was the comparison to Buddle who was simply in a different class than him. Indeed, Buddle got screwed in the A and B team selections. He should have played in the first half alongside Donovan instead of Conor Casey. Tonight Eski did his best to make Chris Albright look like a competent right back. He came in for the second half, spent his time trying to get past Albright but simply couldn’t do it. I’m sorry to say it but right now he’s just an unremarkable player. Maybe Nowak will do him some good. We can only hope.

I also got to see David Testo. MLS needs to find a way to sign that kid. I’d still like to see him on DC United.

I’m going back tomorrow for the combine and perhaps again on Monday if the combine proves interesting. Supposedly there’s also another U-23 vs MNT match on Monday too. I’ll post more if I see anything of note.

... ...

By the way, here's a thread with some pictures:

https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90680

Go2NY · Jan 10, 2004

God Job - Thanks Much

jason1551 · Jan 11, 2004

Stokes and Carroll

I pretty much expected that much out of both of them. They start for the U-23 squad or come on as a sub in basically every game, so I know they have talent. I hope that Nowak was there watching them.

Eski, well, that's pretty much what I expected as well. He just can't make the transition from the college game. Could be trade bait, could be Nowak's project (that makes two with Q1), but the boy needs help.

Testo needs to be in MLS. Everything I read on him says he can play at this level. Knowing he's at Richmond in the A-League, I'm sure DC is keeping tabs on him. Sign him and put Q1 or Eski in the A-League to develop some more. Seems like a reasonable plan that could actually work.

Th4119 · Jan 11, 2004

Re: Stokes and Carroll

Originally posted by jason1551
Eski, well, that's pretty much what I expected as well. He just can't make the transition from the college game. Could be trade bait, could be Nowak's project (that makes two with Q1), but the boy needs help.

Click to expand...

Which brings up a good question, how many 'projects' does Nowak need to have around?

jeff_adams · Jan 11, 2004

Knave, how did Wade Barrett look? I assume he played some left back. Did he bring the ball out of the back well?

Knave · Jan 11, 2004

I actually got a good look at Wade in the second half. It's funny you ask about him bringing the ball out of the back because one thing I noticed was how Thornton used him almost exclusively for that very purpose. Granted, his options were slim as Chris Albright was on the other side. But, yeah, he did a pretty good job starting up the attack down the left. He was quite poised coming up from the back and often quite effective in instigating an attack. That said, he got burned on the counter-attack more than once by some of the faster U-23s.

lurking · Jan 11, 2004

Who were the goal scorers in the second game for the nats?

jeff_adams · Jan 11, 2004

Ok I'll bite. How did the "Chris Albright to right back" experiment work? Is he turned easily? Did he have to foul alot? Can he overlap and hit a cross from that deep?

Was Wade beaten on the counter because he was too slow getting back or did the central defenders not shift over and cover his forward runs? He was usually pretty good about not "hanging" up front in MLS.

sams_soldier · Jan 11, 2004

Originally posted by Knave
Amongst other things, he made some terrific runs into space out of the midfield and if he and Convey were more in sync he might have gotten a shot or two on goal.
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He scored twice against Bolton reserves while they were on tour last year.
http://wakeforestsports.ocsn.com/sports/m-soccer/mtt/carroll_brian00.html

Red&Black · Jan 11, 2004

Originally posted by Knave
. That Ray Hudson refused to give him even one minute of time on the field speaks either to his idiocy or his prejudice against youth.
Click to expand...

well i saw stokes play three full games for united in the cup last year and other than some success in wilmington, he just wasn't mentally ready to play in MLS. there were incredible flashes of talent but he was so inconsistent i thought it right he wasn't playing regularly in MLS. it was very clear he will become a very good player, he just didn't seem to be there yet. had we been somewhat short of experienced backline players, he might of been thrown in there, however this really wasn't necessary. a young player could do worse than train with and watch nelsen/petke/prideaux for a year.

however it sounds like he is gonna be ready this year to challenge for some playing time. i will be excited to see that.

i would catution however not to read TOO much into a scrimmage in a camp situation.

i am glad to see carrol is improving as well. he frankly looked bad in the cup for united, really struggling with defending. he seems so physically undeveloped, i hope he is working on his strength in camp.

in my opinion speed of thought is the most important skill in football and that just isn't esky's strength.

Jose L. Couso · Jan 11, 2004

Good post Knave, Thanks.

It's good to read something about DC United players in the off-season.

Keep the posts coming.

jason1551 · Jan 11, 2004

Re: Re: Notes From The MLS Combine and National Team Scrimmages

Originally posted by Red&Black
well i saw stokes play three full games for united in the cup last year and other than some success in wilmington, he just wasn't mentally ready to play in MLS. there were incredible flashes of talent but he was so inconsistent i thought it right he wasn't playing regularly in MLS. it was very clear he will become a very good player, he just didn't seem to be there yet....

i am glad to see carrol is improving as well. he frankly looked bad in the cup for united, really struggling with defending. he seems so physically undeveloped, i hope he is working on his strength in camp.

Click to expand...

I can go along with that, but it seemed that Hudson's reasoning was that they couldn't play because they had no experience. However, you can't get experience if you don't play. Catch-22 for rookies and it didn't make the team better by not playing them any minutes during the entire season. I'm sure Hudson could have found even junk minutes for them to play, but they got nothing.

Knowing that Nowak likes young players and helping them to become better professionals, I feel more confident in what this team can do. Stokes and Carroll can provide depth that we didn't have last season. Just having two players that can step onto the field is something special after last season. I'm hoping they keep playing and getting better, so that we have a few more things to look forward to this season.

Red&Black · Jan 11, 2004

Re: Re: Re: Notes From The MLS Combine and National Team Scrimmages

Originally posted by jason1551
I can go along with that, but it seemed that Hudson's reasoning was that they couldn't play because they had no experience. However, you can't get experience if you don't play. Catch-22 for rookies and it didn't make the team better by not playing them any minutes during the entire season.
Click to expand...

well, don't forget stokes also played a lot of minutes for VA Beach in the a-leauge last year.

DigitalTron · Jan 11, 2004

Stokes deserves playing time

Thanks for the report Knave!

Not surprised in the least about Stokes, IMHO, he clearly deserved playing time last season and it was a travesty that he didn't get any in MLS games. In the Open Cup games and U-23 games he was fantastic.

To me, Brian Carroll is an enigma. I just cannot get a read on this guy. He is local, fast, aggressive, good at getting stuck in, can shoot, and can send in a very nice cross. But sometimes, he just doesn't defend. Often he races forward from his position recklessly abandoning his defensive duties and acting like he made the right move. The raw skills are there, but to me, he just doesn't ever seem to put them all together. If he does, he can be a very good addition to the team. But until then, he scares me.

It seems his best position currently is Dmid, but without consistency there, I fear he'll leave the central defenders woefully exposed, so I just don't see a coach trusting him with such a crucial position. His speed and ability to cross make him a good candidate for left back--where I think Hudson correctly tried to convert him--but the transition is a long way from complete, as positionally he seems extremely naive (sorry Knave, no pun intended).

Esky doesn't suck, but I've maintained since well before the draft that Ricardo Clark was the guy to get, because at best, Esky becomes a slightly better than average MLS player. The year under Hudson really messed Esky up, and rusted his skills IMHO. He's better than he apparently showed in the Combine's first day.

Best of luck to Chris Albright. I've always thought he might make a decent right back ... guess we'll find out now. He has speed, size, foot skills to play it out of the back, good passing skills, physical nature to bang, nice crossing ability, and a willingness to defend. If you're not asking him to finish, then he should be fine.

-Digital

Knave · Jan 11, 2004

Originally posted by lurking
Who were the goal scorers in the second game for the nats?
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I'd like to confirm all that myself. I was so busy watching what Warren was doing on the first goal that I didn't even note it. The other two goals were on the other side of the field and I just couldn't tell.

Originally posted by jeff_adams
Ok I'll bite. How did the "Chris Albright to right back" experiment work? Is he turned easily? Did he have to foul alot? Can he overlap and hit a cross from that deep?
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I really did a double take when I saw Albright playing right back in the second half. But I thought about it and I think it makes a lot of sense. I'm sure when Arena looks at Albright he sees nothing less than the possibility of another "Tony Sanneh," a fast forward converted into a defender who can charge down the wing and open the attack. Whether all that will happen is hard to tell. He looked inexperienced at right back and if not for Big Zach's constant barking of instructions it might have been a real disaster. In addition, he was going up primarily against Eski. Eski couldn't get past him but whether that means he was thwarted by Albight's defensive prowess or whether it means Eski was just unimpressive is certainly debateable.

Serie Zed · Jan 11, 2004

Thanks Knave, well done.

doneshufflin · Jan 11, 2004

Russell

What about Robbie Russell? Was he the starter in the first half and then Albright took over for him? I have a hard time believing that Albright would start over Russell, even though I have never seen Russell play. Your post was awesome Knave!!! Keep up the good work!!!

LA Lee · Jan 11, 2004

US 23s vs Nats

Ignoring Knave's comment about knuckle dragging LA fans, I'll offer my comments on the players (DC United and other Nats) in the night game (US Nats vs U 23s). (BTW Knave I was able to walk through the gate and onto the sidelines with no problem-maybe it was the shades I had on).

I got to the game late in the first half and it took a while to sort out the players on both teams, which was made more difficult by the fact that there were wholesale subs at halftime.

DC United Players First:

Bobby Convey: Only caught a few minutes of his play but even in those few minutes he seemed confident and commanding. Made a nice run without the ball down left side of the field late in the half and yelled for the ball but his teammates instead switched play to other side of field ignoring a wide open Convey. Subbed at the half.

David Stokes - It wasn't until I read this thread that I finally figured out who the tall black guy was in central defense. He was generally very impressive, not just his size, physical play, and speed (able to match Cunningham step for step) but his skills and vocal leadership of the back line. Having said that, he and other defenders did make defensive mistakes and got burned for two goals in second half. On the first goal, Josh Wolff was 1v1 with Kelly Gray, I believe, along the endline, some shoving and jockeying for position, and somehow Josh was able to free himself and drill a low hard cross to the near post where Cunningham scored on a diving header (nice goal). The first mistake was made by Kelly Gray to allow the cross, the second mistake was made by the defender who allowed Cunningham space and position. Not sure who that defender was but I suspect it was Stokes. Nonetheless of the 4 backs on the U23s, in my mind he was the standout.

Eski - He was on the far side of the field from where I was watching so hard to comment in detail. He did seem quick and skilled but he had little success against Albright. (BTW I agree with couple of posters above who think that a move to right back might be the best career move for Chris.)

Others:

Pat Noonan (Nats) - I mention him first because he was the player I was most impressed with and maybe surprised by. He wasn't a dominating factor playing on the left side of midfield (at times pushing forward to form a 3-man attack) - it was just that he seemed confident and poised and everyone time he received the ball he had an idea what he was going to do with it and would generally make the right decision or the right run without the ball. A skillful and clever player who has a future with the nats.

Ed Gaven and Edson Buddle (U23s) - Neither player received enough of the ball in the second half but both showed good skills. Gaven with some nice flick touch passes. Buddle,on one play had a nice dribble move past Barrett and played a good cross which Gaven and Eski were not able to connect on. A good scoring opportunity (one of the few) wasted by the U23s.

Wade Barrett - Both good and bad. The good first. Wade had the major role in the prettiest goal of the night when he took the ball down the left side, cut inside, worked a give and go with another player (not sure who) continued his run and received the ball back and wide open in the box - he had a clear open goal to shoot at but instead calmly slotted the ball across to a wide open Josh Wolff. Very similar play to the goal he scored with DC United in the friendly vs Tottenham last year. The bad - his passing was erratic. Also the only time I heard Bruce Arena yell from the sidelines was when Eddie Gaven ran behind the Nats defense to receive a ball and shoot just over the bar - Bruce loud and clear from the sidelines "You gotta be there Wade." Can't blame the U23s backline entirely for the goal - their midfield could take credit for defensive lapse as well.

John Wolyniec - Scored US Nats goal towards the end of the first half. I've seen him play enough to know that he is not exceptionally quick, does not having blazing speed but he is what I would call sneaky fast. In that if you are not careful in your marking and he gets up a head of steam, you will have a hard time catching up. That is what happened on the goal. Some good combination play on the left side of the field with a lovely through ball played to Wolyniec who scored on sliding foot first shot.

Beckerman and Martino - If I am not mistaken those two were the central midfielders for the U23s in the second half. And that I think was the weakness defensively in the U23 team. Martino is the quickest and most skillful of the midfielders - made a couple of lovely passes and Beckerman had a long range dipping shop that struck the post but neither is a good ballwinner or a physical presence in midfield.

Lee

Jose L. Couso · Jan 11, 2004

Good post LA Lee, thanks.

TCompton · Jan 11, 2004

Thanks for the reports Knave and LA Lee

As for Carroll and Stokes... It's good to read positive comments about their play, but I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss Hudson's opinion of their situation.

What you're seeing are two players that have been "professionally" coached for one year. Sure, they didn't see time, but I they received a bit of attention at practice. I'm pretty sure that when they approached Hudson or Trask about playing time, they were told that they needed to work on specific weaknesses first and prove in practices that they were capable of performing consistently before they could see any minutes.

So, after a their first year of professional soccer where they received constructive criticism, they should be expected to have matured a bit and to have better understanding of what they need to do. Because of this, they should look much better than what the earlier descriptions of their play.

While I think they would be even better right now had they seen some playing time, I wouldn't necessarily assume that their first year in MLS to be a complete waste.

Having said that, hopefully Nowak can really pull out their potential. I love the idea that Stokes can get forward easily. Last year against Blackburn, he seemed to have a little difficulty with space ahead of him... like he wasn't really sure if he should move up or not.

JoeW · Jan 11, 2004

Great job Knave and thanks LALee.

It's very encouraging to hear the good words about Carroll. Maybe he'll evolve into our D-mid? I'm not surprised by the good words about Stokes.

I'm sure they did some growing up this season (even though they didn't play much). But at the same time, I'm sure that Hudson didn't do a good job building their confidence--when they did play (USOC matches), they probably played "tight" and not comfortable on the ball. Just guessing but that sure seems plausible to me as a way of explaining why Stokes looked the way he did in some USOC play.

Red&Black · Jan 11, 2004

Originally posted by JoeW
Great job Knave and thanks LALee.

It's very encouraging to hear the good words about Carroll. Maybe he'll evolve into our D-mid? I'm not surprised by the good words about Stokes.

I'm sure they did some growing up this season (even though they didn't play much). But at the same time, I'm sure that Hudson didn't do a good job building their confidence--when they did play (USOC matches), they probably played "tight" and not comfortable on the ball. Just guessing but that sure seems plausible to me as a way of explaining why Stokes looked the way he did in some USOC play.
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actually stokes' problem was more to do with positioning in the first two cup matches out in germantown. he really had a problem being in the right place.

but i will say he looked good against Wilmington, that was easily the best i'd seen him play.

nancyb · Jan 11, 2004

Bobby's looking all grown up these days, isn't he?

Lowecifer · Jan 11, 2004

Is he talking to Dan Marino's shorter twin brother?

Red&Black · Jan 11, 2004

ok i have seen a report that says robbie russell had a knock and didn't play in the scrimmage, same thing with bennie as well. any further info on either injury?

was albright at right back because russell got hurt or is arena trying to convert him? (damn arena can be loyal to a fault).