Not Messing About - The Brandon Williams Thread

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Sofabloke, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. Naboomagnoli

    Naboomagnoli Member+

    May 31, 2007
    I'd rather he wait a year for England but he's much more likely to be on the plane than Mase. Chilwell's on a bad run of form and nobody else really has 2nd choice nailed down. Let's at least see if Williams nails first choice for us though. Let's see if he has a bad match or two and how he deals with it.

    But imagine being so effective that you end up making Adama Traore swap wings to try his luck against Aaron Wan Bissaka.
     
  2. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    People can try to shelve any England talk about Williams, but with the Euros just around the corner and him poised to have a sustained run as a starter, it's really not that farfetched to believe he could be considered at the very least.
    Since he's been called up earlier in the season, I can recall really one game he was poor in (the one vs Sheffield) and he still scored a big goal that ignited our comeback and saved us a point on the day.
    He's without a doubt the best LB we have and right now, he's probably one of the very best ones in the league (top English one for sure with Chilwell). No one comes close after that: not Rose, not Cresswell, not Taylor or Bertrand.
    Still remains to be seen how he'll deal once he has a couple of bad games. But if he hasn't already, Southgate will surely keep an eye out for him.
     
  3. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  4. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Young will start
     
  5. jnielsen

    jnielsen Member+

    May 12, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
  6. jnielsen

    jnielsen Member+

    May 12, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
  7. JC7rox

    JC7rox Member+

    Manchester United FC, LAFC
    Jun 11, 2004
    West Coast, Cali!
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
  8. Futbol_Head

    Futbol_Head Member+

    Manchester United
    Aug 18, 2007
    Bay Area, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    [emoji1478]
     
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  10. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Williams will overtake Shaw - Jonathan Spector

    https://www.goal.com/en/news/willia...for-man-utd-spector/2x09a5j3jhla17sxv4pvdt19j

    Interesting take from Spec. I personally feel he pretty much already has. There is the thing with inconsistency and dips that is expected from young players and we're yet to see it from Williams really.
    But based on what we've seen from him so far, not worried in the least in how he will stand up to any adversity that will invariably come his way. The guy is a fighter and looks to have incredible mental strength and grit.
     
  12. MizzouMUFC

    MizzouMUFC Member+

    Apr 10, 2010
    Places
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    The only reason Shaw is getting minutes over Williams is because of his contract and seniority. By next season, Shaw will be a backup or hopefully moved on.
     
  13. Anonymous_United

    Manchester United
    Brazil
    Jul 13, 2018
    Oshea was better LB than shaw..
     
  14. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1222919308344549376 is not a valid tweet id

    Was not even aware that Williams had been one of the nominees for United player of the month for January, but it's entirely deserved (and no big surprise either tbh).
    Hardly put a foot wrong and has pretty much confirmed that the LB for now should definitely be his, as far as I'm concerned. Until he hits a rough patch at least and loses form, it's shouldn't even be a question.
     
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  15. Naboomagnoli

    Naboomagnoli Member+

    May 31, 2007
    His biggest weakness for us has been his need to cut inside to deliver a ball. He needs to go wide more and cross without hesitancy.
     
  16. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Ehhh... I understand that position. I agree it would be helpful, but I'd be just as happy if he made forceful runs on the underlap if you will and attempted shots or cut backs. A cross isn't likely to lead to a good goalscoring chance. I'd let a fullback cross with his weaker foot all day long from out wide. A cutback? Or a shot from like a 40 degree angle? Not so much.

    Part of the problem is that he's not had a consistent partner at LW and Rashford isn't great at linking with a fullback.
     
  17. Naboomagnoli

    Naboomagnoli Member+

    May 31, 2007
    It's the biggest fallacy in modern football that crosses have a low percentage chance of leading to a goal, therefore attacking sides should not put effort into improving delivery from out wide. If you as a team write off your own ability to deliver from out wide, then so do the opposition, and your narrow attacks through a narrow defence end up negated too. Why would anybody leave a space for an underlap if the wide player isn't a threat out wide?

    Hit and hope crosses are ineffective now, that's true. Headed goals have decreased significantly. But purposeful, accurate crossing - cutbacks, low driven balls, picking out a spare man at the back post - is still a very effective means of generating xG, if you don't dither and wait for the chance to go. The top two assist generators in the PL are both high volume crossers. 7 of De Bruyne's 15 assists in the PL came from crosses. 8 of Trent Alexander Arnold's 10 assists came from out wide, either as crosses or set piece deliveries.
     
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  18. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  19. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Crosses do have a low chance of leading to a goal. That's just a fact. TAA's pass completion if you take into consideration his crosses is bang average. He does create a load of chances generally speaking, but he's an immensely gifted striker of the ball. That's not true of anyone we've played at FB since Irwin.

    In any case, we may as well compare Martial to Messi if we are gonna compare literally any wide player on our books to KDB and TAA. That's not even apples and oranges that's ********ing coca cola and marbles.

    I think maybe we didn't see eye to eye, because I said cutbacks are valuable, they have the greatest value in attacking passes in the game. Best scoring chances come from those.

    Unless something changes drastically, we'll always have an underlap available. When Martial drifts wide, he brings 2 defenders with him. When Rashford starts wide left, he's always got 1 defender plastered to him and typically another one not too far away.

    In any case, the point I was trying to make is that having a fullback who has to check back onto his strong foot to cross is a weakness. It is less exposed if he's willing to cross with his weaker foot for sure, but comparing an academy player crossing with his weaker foot to KDB and TAA using their stronger foot is a ludicrous standard. BW could practice forever he'd never get anywhere near them.
     
  20. Naboomagnoli

    Naboomagnoli Member+

    May 31, 2007
    Given that I wasn't comparing Brandon Williams to KDB or TAA I don't feel there's much to respond to here. There's too much reaching for it to be a valid counterpoint, whether it's two weeks after the original discussion or not.

    Suffice to say that going for an underlap tactic without offering any threat if the wide player is not pressed is giving the opposition a very easy choice to make. Williams was at his best when he was coming back on to his right less frequently, not doing the Ashley Young and killing the move. Crossing when appropriate is not the same as a blanket GWAC approach.
     
  21. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Williams is hungry for success at United.

    https://www.thenational.ae/sport/fo...ng-star-with-a-thirst-for-silverware-1.982705

    Putting his natural ability aside, his attitude is a big reason why the LB spot should be his in the long term as far as I'm concerned. One of the big plusses this season is that we've found fighters, guys of character, who really care and are desperate to make the club successful once again.
    We've missed that badly in recent years and Williams (along with guys like McTominay, Fred, Rashford and Bruno by the looks of it) is most definitely one of them.
    Shaw, to be fair, has shown signs of life recently but it still very much remains to be seen if he's truly turned the corner. We'll have to stay tuned on that one I guess and see how things progress until the end of the season. At the very least, Williams has provided the kick in the a@@ Shaw desperately needed..
     
  22. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    You brought up TAA and KDB after I said crossing is unlikely to result in chances in the middle of a discussion of a right footed left back, crossing with his left. I've no idea what you are talking about. Shaw probably won us the game against Watford though.
     
  23. Naboomagnoli

    Naboomagnoli Member+

    May 31, 2007
    I didn't compare Brandon Williams to those two though did I? That was your leap. I said that, just because crossing is low reward doesn't mean that you stop trying it and stop trying to improve your effectiveness with it. You don't have to be TAA or KDB to succeed with centres from out wide.

    Luke Shaw had a good game as a defensive LB did he? Good. Other anecdotal evidence - we beat Chelsea with two centres from out wide. Arsenal beat Everton with two goals from crosses.

    Brandon Williams, when playing as left wing back, should be doing more to cross the ball in when he is in a good position to do so. Fact. He can underlap too, if it suits the situation. But saying crossing is low percentage and concluding that we should stop crossing is the sort of basic statistics ********-up that led England to the dark ages of route one.
     
  24. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  25. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

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