Not especially proud..

Discussion in 'New York Red Bulls: Supporters Clubs' started by crusio, Nov 8, 2004.

  1. crusio

    crusio New Member

    May 10, 2004
    Princeton
    After returning home from this weekends game in our nations capitol, I reflected upon what I saw while was there. There were 20 thousand or so spirited fans. Mostly all wearing the black of their DC United team. There were 2 supporters sections. Both stood the entire game singing, chanting and jumping... These groups sit with the regular fans and their enthusiasm is contagious. Everyone sitting around them joined in. Everyone. There were waving flags, clever banners, tons of confetti and coordinated placards that refected the colors of their team. The scene was extremely festive. There were kids there, but they were not the lionshare of the attendees. They blew their horns too, but were mostly drowned out by the singing of the supporters, not the other way around. In the corridor, in the bathrooms, in the parking lot and on the Metro you heard chants of 'DC UNIIIITED, DC UNIIIIITED'. At half time, an impromptu band made up of supporters banging drums, rythmic clanging cow bells and a bizarre whistle drew dozens of fans into a makeshift mosh pit. People danced, sang, chanted, hung from a hanging signs. A hundred or so gathered and joined in the festivities. A police officer watched over the scene, smiling and obviously enjoying what he was seeing. This crowd would not have felt out of place in South America, England or anywhere else for that matter. It was a true soccer experience. My question: Where did DC United go so right and METRO go so so wrong?? Why are we the antithisis of DC?
     
  2. stinky

    stinky New Member

    May 14, 2000
    Long Beach, NY
    hmmm...

    this is an interesting one....

    but hell, here goes.

    why the scum is better?

    they've pretty much had their own stadium since day 1. they've won championships. their field has always been one of, if not, the best in league. their ownership has been pretty much consistent. they have a subway system going to their stadium. they have somewhat more respect in their local media. they've been consistent with their uniforms. their crest has remained the same.

    we've had to deal with the NJSEA and astroturf, grass trays and fieldturf. we've been dealing with football lines beginning in august of every year. we've had a front office that changed at least twice. we haven't won anything.

    as for the supporters groups, their's seem to grow, ours to dwindle. i remember a while back a big to do b/w the esc and the front office regarding the esc, their chants, and behavior. i'll probably get flamed but what the hell. esc was more concerned with their rights to curse in their chants then they were to attracting new members.

    dc supporters group, much like new englands and the fire's, seem to get along with management. and yes, while they have different management, its time to look in the mirror and maybe, just maybe, start pointing the fingers at ourselves, at least partially.

    i watched the game on saturday on tv and thought the same thing. they create an atmosphere down there like no other team in the league. except maybe the fire and galaxy.

    when and if we get our new stadium, it may be time to rethink the ways we try and grow the esc or any other fan group for that matter.

    and also, i think the security at rfk is no where near the pricks we have at the meadowlands.

    just my opinion. flame away.

    oh...i still hate them, but no doubt, they are (as is the galaxy) one of the flagship teams of the league. if you wanna sell an investor to mls, you certainly don't bring'em to a metro game, you'd take them to HDC or a DC game.
     
  3. stinky

    stinky New Member

    May 14, 2000
    Long Beach, NY
    one more thing, i truly consider most of the esc members i know friends and great people, so its not a knock at all on them, either as a group, or individually. the esc has been the most consistent presence at the meadowlands.

    i think the stadium situation, security and NJSEA are the biggest reasons for our problems...as is management....

    winning does a lot to bring fans together, and we've failed miserably. but, as we look to open the doors to a new stadium in 2006 (IF that happens) and look to "rebrand" our team....it might make sense to rebrand the supporters group a little, to make it more fan, and possibly family, friendly.

    again, i mean no disrespect to any members or friends in the esc.
     
  4. AtNacional

    AtNacional Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Washington DC
    Ok. First off I didn't expect to see that many metro supporters down in Washington considering the result of the first game. You all set a good expample for other metro fans. Second of all if you would have gone to the metro v dc game in dc for regular season play, you would have seen 10 people behind the goal...If thats a supporters club then we have like nine at my university. The screaming eagles/barra brava had decent numbers throughout the season, but for that playoff game I guess more people decided to go to the game. Basically you can't hear neither of the two supporters club when you are down in dc, making it impossible to hear something on tv. The only chant that you can hear is that dc unitedd bum bum bum bum bum bum bum. As for the creative flags you were talking about, they are all done by the same person and they aren't flags, they are just trash bag material with white spray paint on them. A stadium would fix our problem with attendance and a new coach would probably help us win something. We don't think like united fans, therefore we should come up w our own ideas, and we have in the past. Why are we comparing ourselves to people that watch metro fans instead of a game for 90 minutes while they hold three fingers up to show how many mls cups they have won?
     
  5. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    Perhaps the converse is true: their management gets along with them. Maybe the MFO needs to re-examine itself & try to work with its existing fan base, as well as trying to attract new fans. The goodwill that MLS & the Metros had in Year One has slowly been dissipated. I've seen many fans drift away for a variety of reasons. I'm not sure what the MFO has done to analyze its fan base over the years. Did it ever figure out who the fans were in 1996? What did it do to retain them? Did it ever determine who the new fans were? What did it do to retain them? By any measure, the crowds have dwindled. Is it solely due to the lack of success on the field? Is it the stadium atmosphere or lack thereof? The soccer dollar is totally discretionary and needs to be treated with respect. By comparison, see how hockey, on paper a more successful sport, has disappeared without much notice.
     
  6. stinky

    stinky New Member

    May 14, 2000
    Long Beach, NY
    perhaps. and that's why each party needs to accept some blame. doesn't matter the percentage. neither the supporters group or management is free of fault. point is, improvement need to be made, and its much easier to work on that which you can control.

    you can sit there and point fingers all day long...

    i don't think anyone here thinks we have the ideal management group. i guarantee that if we approach the front office and ask what they want, rather then demand things, it'll go along way. from banners, flags, promos, etc.
     
  7. GIO17

    GIO17 Member

    Nov 29, 1998
    Don't forget that the Washington Capitals & the NHL are in a lockout.

    But seriously, There are somethings that needs to be done. We can put the finger on alot of things. Are they fixable? Some are & some aren't. There are road blocks as well as bumps in the road. Sadly here it's called the NJSEA, Their security Goon Squad, and NJ politicains who are against this and who are still throwing Red Tape at our stadium project. No matter how many I's are being dotted and T's being crossed, it feels like when it's at the end of the process, these bastards are making more sections and more papers for the project to get signed before the shovel is actually in the ground. That's right I'm saying that they are stalling on purpose.

    Other than that, MFO still has to improve on things. But the things they can't control they are trying to work on them. I am hoping that the news of the stadium putting in that shovel in the ground will finally happen.
     
  8. United_Caps_Fan

    United_Caps_Fan New Member

    Apr 25, 2004
    Alexandria,VA 134/35
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That happens at the very LOW attended matches, usually the 16K or less crowds. When we draw 18-24K, as we did quite a few times this season, it changes.

    Totally inaccurate, false, and just not true. If youd like I, or someone else down here will send you tapes of any average mid season match, and you can clearly hear the Barra/ SE's over the broadcast. We brought several hundred up to Giants for the first playoff match, and that crowed was MUCH SMALLER than even our smallest supporters club crowds at any poorly (13-15K) attended match by DCU standards.



    I belive he was also talking about the FLAGS in the STANDS that were being waved by FANS. Also the flags that were being raised by fans as the BAF is at USMNT matches. Those were no where even CLOSE to being made from any plastic material, and took alot of time and effort and MANY PEOPLE to make. The ones hanging around the staduim, some were made from plastic yes, and were made by a hell of alot more than ONE person. That involved both supporters clubs, and took 15 or so of us a copule of hours to go in early and hang them alone, not to mention all the time to MAKE them. And those were just the ones we made for the stadium by itself. Forget the 30 or so banners we made to hang on overpasses throughout the DC Area. Not to mention all the other home made signs and banners that just the average fans brought to hang up and hold as well. Oh, and dont forget the TONS of confetti. Furthermore, all the money spent by us, the fans, to help make that kind of atmospere happen. DCU does not pay for any of it, it comes out of OUR POCKETS, on top of paying for our tickets. Its called DEDICATION.

    A stadium will help your situation yes, but from an ousiders perspective, your FO doesnt look that great either. Also, you DO need to think like "United Fans". WHY? Because its our passion for our club, that spreads like wildfire, brings new people into the fold, and makes being a supporter attractive to a wider range of people / average soccer fans. We have very large numbers, and our supporters clubs are global, with members all over the world. Of those large numbers, there are a large number who are incredibly dedicated, and wiling to do almost anything to not only show thier support, love, passion for our club, but to help win over new fans, and spread the word about just how great it really is to be a part of experiences such as Saturday evenings at RFK.




    I think every fan of every team who doesnt have the greatest support like only a couple or so MLS franchises do, should pay attention, look, listen, learn, and ask themselves and thier fellow soccer fans, and supporters of thier same clubs what they can do on THIER part to make things better for THEM.


    If I wasnt a DCU fan, I sure would HATE them, and thier fans too, but I would also have to admit that part of that hatred would be sheer and utter jealousy that they have something that I would want for my team in the worst way, and thats awesome support in the stands, and a match esperirience like no other in North America. THAT alone would be more than enough to get me to want to do everything humanly possible to have THAT for my own team.

    I myself I guess am just lucky, because I just happen to be from this area, and we just happend to get an MLS franchise, and things just happend to work out they way they have for us. I wish it could happen like this for EVERY member MLS club, even yours. I KNOW that is SUCKS on your end, im a Caps fan, and we get OWNED by Pittsburgh ,and Philly usually, and always have been. But your fellow supporters here who agree with Curiso, are right. Its up to all of you to ultimately make your home matches, the esperinces you want them to be. I hope you get there, and some day can feel like the luckiest soccer fan in the world, like alot of us here in DC do, espeically right now.


    P.S. Fostering good relationships with management and the FO, as well as players goes a long way in making things alot easuer, and go more smoothly. They ( UFO, and even some management) have made themselves extremely available to us fans, the suppoerters groups.. etc, and im sure its partially because they know that WE are the ones who make experiences like Saturday nights possible, and WE are the ones who are the best marketing, because WE are the ones who talk DCU up, and bring new people into the fold. It seems to me that the supporters and DCU work pretty closely together, and have very good lines of communication, and that helps ALOT.
     
  9. Metro_tico

    Metro_tico New Member

    Mar 31, 1999
    As much as I hate DC.....This dude is right!

    DC sucks and I hate them...
     
  10. soccerqt

    soccerqt New Member

    Aug 2, 2004
    South Jersey
    I am in total support of this thread.
     
  11. AtNacional

    AtNacional Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Washington DC
    Yeah I'm just jealous.
     
  12. CbR

    CbR Member

    Nov 10, 2000
    Bergen County NJ
    i believe it has alot to do with their on field success and a combo of luck. We also drew large crowds here and there, and EVERY FREAKEN time we witnessed metro get their asses handed to them. Adu falling on their lap helped their attendence as well.blah blah blah blah


    i dunno , we're just in big trouble, and i truthfully believe the survival of this franchise rests on the stadium being built. This way we can attract those thousands of fans we lost the past 6-7 years and then hopefully build something from there with our onfield play
     
  13. United_Caps_Fan

    United_Caps_Fan New Member

    Apr 25, 2004
    Alexandria,VA 134/35
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I would concur with that. On field success helps a great deal, and D. C. United has been fortunate enough to have had alot of that in this leagues first 9 seasons. However, I will say this as well, even without that success, this area still is a great soccer area, and I honestly think that even with little to no prior success, the fans here would still be as passionate, and turn out in numbers for any match that held as much meaning as last saturday's, just on the sheer HOPE that we would finally get to taste something great. For myself, having had all those past successes is great and all, but that does not make me want to see MORE of it any less. In fact it fosters the mindset of wanting the next one even MORE.

    I hope for soccers sake, metros fans sake, MLS sake, and our sake too (because we love to hate you, and you are our biggest rival) that things work out for the better up there, you get your stadium, and things finally start to fall into place. Its been a great derby so far, and I hope it continues and becomes one of the storied, world renowed derbys in American soccer.
     
  14. wandering soccerdog

    Mar 29, 2003
    Where did the MetroStars go wrong?

    They went wrong by not being the Cosmos. If the MetroStars had honored the past instead of distancing themselves from it, they would not be in the hole they're in today.

    Stillitano and his crew of misfits alienated the entire metropolitan soccer community by their unprofessional antics (crapping on season ticket holders, crapping on groups, crapping on fan clubs, crapping on former Cosmos players and staff). And when a new regime finally arrived to replace Stillitano, they didn't make a loud enough statement that the old regime was gone. (When Stillitano busted up the Metros' exclusive soccer rights at Giants Stadium, Nick should have hanged Stillitano in effigy in the center circle as a half-time event.)

    Most players who come here dog it. It's clear that there is something wrong in the culture of the management that causes good players to become completely ineffective (Tab Ramos, Ezra Hendrickson, Shaun Bartlett, Jaime Moreno, Eddie Pope, Marcelo Balboa, Branco, Kerry Zavagnin, etc.). Why do so many good players perform poorly here and excel elsewhere? That's an office culture thing.

    From DC United's start, they have been guided by the singular vision of Kevin Payne. Back when the Cosmos started, they were guided by the vision of Clive Toye. These two guys are the only people in the past 35 years who have had any clue how to run a professional soccer franchise in America. There has been no corresponding visionary who has guided the Metrostars. It has been a hodgpodge of small minds with bad ideas and band-aid solutions who have come here to ply their trade.

    This team needs a re-branding something fierce. It needs an entire new ownership/management team. It needs a new color scheme and a new name and a new stadium.

    I have season-tickets because I love the game, but it's impossible to love this team.
     
  15. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    repped.


    although in their defense (very briefly) WHoever had the rights for the Cosmos name wasn't selling except for about 7 digits, which MLS did not have at the moment.

    However, to push away many old Cosmos (yet fail to push away the one Cosmo they should have) was a disaster. Maybe they were afraid that people would notice that the Metros were nowhere NEAR the cosmos AT the time (which they noticed anyway - rule #1 - you can fool the red states, but don't insult the intelligence of NY fans, they'll turn on you very very quickly)

    I like the end part - rooting for this team is a chore, and it shouldn't be
     
  16. jgoal5

    jgoal5 Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    LV-PA
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Does the ESC have officers (in Jersey terms, a Boss, Underboss, Consigliere, etc., or in other terms, President, VP, Secretary, Tresurer, etc.)?

    If not, would something like this help the club come together, as well as bridge the gap with some of the organizations that have been problematic (including MFO)???

    It is usually easier to hear from a one voice then a hundred voices shouting different things at the same time.

    Also, are there any meeting places in Jersey? Maybe a pub by the stadium on Rt.3 or something. I know a lot is done in NYC (Nathan Hales), but that is not the easiest place to get to at certain times from parts of Jersey or PA.

    What about having "Brigades" to help club members? Each brigade has a meeting place, and then there are larger meetings where 2 or 3 brigade officers get together to meet with the "Executive Board".

    This thing could be set-up like a mafia family organization. But if there is a set-up in place, can someone explain how it works??
     
  17. Congorilla

    Congorilla New Member

    Feb 18, 1999
    Jgoal, I hereby nominate you to organize an ESC brigade in a 20 mile radius around your hood. You have the freedom to set it up with a bar, make flyers, and start a brigade mailing list. You have the authority to get your brigade to make banners, flags, raise awareness about bus trips. All this will take is E-N-E-R-G-Y. The ESC will NEVER frown on new people being involved, hell ANYONE being involved. Interested? Post your will to power on the ESC/Metro yahoo list.
    http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Metros_ESC/

    The Empire S.C. welcomes all dialogue, but only YOUR action will improve it. Why ask what the ESC can do? ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THE ESC. Otherwise, the concerned musings of this thread are just so much thinking man's flatulence.
     
  18. BBBulldog

    BBBulldog Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 25, 2004
    Dinamo Zagreb
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Me neither, respect.

    I've posted videos of Barra across field during regular season, if you'd like I'm sure NYR Metros saved them :)

    They were not done by one person. In fact the only one I've done for that game was Jaime portrait (and that was on cloth :p ). For Metros game I think I made 1. All the others were made by app. 10 Barra/Eagles and hanged on stadium by 10 more.
    There is a lesson to be learned here tho. It is true I started doing it by myself several months ago because I thought it would be neat to have different stuff every game until we can cover left of Barra with real banners (I would never use stuff like that for more than 1 game). It's not something I came up with of course, 1 game signs like these are common on stadiums worldwide. Once people saw first one they liked it and I asked for suggestions on what to do for next game. I got way better ideas that I could come up with myself. Then few months after that another of my Barra brothers started making some too. Then during these playoff games 10-15 different people jumped up and took initiative to do it, so much that we had to cover upper bowl as we had too many and I was free to do try things (like little fun trying to introduce mosaic concept).
    So stop talking and do something you believe in, if concept is good eventually other people will back you up on it.

    I'm not sure how we think, but I usually use my experience as supporter in Europe or look at Boca or Racing or Barcelona or Bayern or Fiorentina or one of 925623659357 groups (and I look a lot at ones that are similar in size too) that are better than us and say ah, cool, I wanna try that... or this might fly with us on a smaller scale.

    I'll say again you guys need to get FO on your side, but last time you told me it's impossible :) I don't mean lickin each other's a$$ as there's nothing sh1tier than FO telling supporter group what to do, but they have to think of you as an asset, to stadium atmosphere, to other people at game, to team. As I said before, unless they watch DC game and say um nah I really don't want that, I'd rather we have tumbleweeds rolling through stands while we sell hot dogs to fat soccer moms... I'm getting an impression they're that out of it.

    Lastly, I've had pleasure of meeting NJSEA (if you noticed 20 or so yellow tards being annoying around our section at last NJ game, I can't believe guy thought he could take my camera LOL) but they're as annoying as our own CSC used to be. Used to be, because they got faded out through supporter/FO initiative and now we have metropolitan PD that one of our leaders met with separately) in front of us that are super professional in their conduct, and only other people around are ticket checker guys that are cool (well at least to me, he didn't check me for ticket since something like August hehe).

    Again, I really think it begins when your FO gets their heads out of their asses and realizes supporters = good. And when you do more to move in that direction (and since I'm ignorant on how you work and what you do, i'll STFU now before jamison says I'm trolling :p )
     
  19. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    Did the Cosmos ever make a profit? Was either the team or the NASL a long-term success? What was Toye's vision? What is Payne's?
     
  20. dirk diggler

    dirk diggler Member

    May 14, 2000
    Fire Daddy!
    Club:
    --other--
    The Cosmos were owned by Warner Brothers. The team was set up as a tax write-off. Toye's job was to run the Cosmos at a loss, the bigger the loss the better as far as WB was concerned. Hence the big name signings.

    As always wondered: if the Cosmos were owned by a different group, NASL *may* have never gone under????
     
  21. Z010 Union

    Z010 Union Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't forget Shaq was in town for the Wizards home opener and we outdrew them by 2K

    Like so many other DC fans, I hope things get better for you in terms of your stadium situation, FO, etc. Much respect to the travelling faithful from your club.

    Ways to grow numbers? Speaking as someone who wasn't in SE from day 1, I found the size of the group overwhelming and it seemed like an exclusive club. Eventually, I found my way over to a tailgate then got season tickets in the nest.

    When I met some of you guys up in Foxboro (US v Holland) I got the same kind of impression. It's difficult for a fan that wants to get involved or thinks it's great that you guys stand and sing, but doesn't know a soul. May I suggest a more inclusive approach including tabling at all entrances to the stadium and maybe an opening match ticket exchange policy and open tailgate.

    I guarantee if fans feel welcome, they will be hooked on the kind of experience that you guys create.
     
  22. nyrmetros

    nyrmetros Member

    Feb 7, 2004
    Speaking of ESC brigades...... Isn't the Queens Brigade a bunch of doueche bags??

    Seriosuly though..... I try to recruit for ESC and Metro every day. My school has the largest mix of different flags in the world..... it's fvcken diverse...... lots of soccer fans..... but only 2 Metro fans..... why? CAUSE FOR WHATEVER REASON, THEY ALREADY KNOW THE TEAM AND IT'S FO SUCKS!

    The perception is killing this team, and driving any future fans away.
     
  23. Dave121

    Dave121 New Member

    Nov 9, 2004
    Washington DC
    I hope for soccers sake, metros fans sake, MLS sake, and our sake too (because we love to hate you, and you are our biggest rival) that things work out for the better up there, you get your stadium, and things finally start to fall into place. Its been a great derby so far, and I hope it continues and becomes one of the storied, world renowed derbys in American soccer.[/QUOTE]

    I hear that. Above all of our rivalries, the true goal here is the survival of the MLS. In the true capitalist spirit, i believe that good competition is essential to the longevity of this league. It makes me proud to hear compliments from our enemies (we've worked hard to develop the atmosphere in DC), and I hope you guys get more support and continue to travel. I look forward to countless seasons of vicious rivalry with you guys... See ya.
     
  24. jlm120170

    jlm120170 New Member

    Dec 14, 2003
    maryland
    He is so right thats how i hooked up with the SE. I Went on a roadtrip they were sponsoring to NY.Had a great time not knowing there were other groups that were there.I like the ones that were from LaNorte and loved how they do there chants and the big DRUM and i knew i had to be with them.It doesnt hurt to self promote and to have something to set up outside to get people to join and get the Empire expierence.
     
  25. nyrmetros

    nyrmetros Member

    Feb 7, 2004
    Great idea. Now only if the NJSEA wouldn't arrest you for doing that...........
     

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