While I agree that the Canes have been a drag and hard to love lately I do not believe that is a legitimate excuse for the last decade when the Hornets have been as high as 17th in their league, in that time, with similar results (save two sub .500 playoff years) and the Canes have mostly been dead last in a league of the same size. The triangle is great as a college sports area and should stick to that, could be the Charlotte in me but it doesn't feel like a Major League city at all and the Canes are feeling the result of being Average or Worst in a market that isn't really a pro sport market. Any city will support a team that is a championship contender or in the playoffs regularly, look at how Nashville suddenly became the model southern hockey city like Tampa and Raleigh never had similar experiences in their history. It may not seem like it but I don't think the MLS has ever WANTED Raleigh over Charlotte and the fact that they allegedly try to steer the Canes new owner to other markets (per a quote from Dundon himself) speaks loud and clear to anyone who isn't a Raleigh hopeful. I think Raleigh gets a deal if they suddenly get a moneybag owner and a realistic stadium deal but not otherwise. The Courage is a cool look but it isn't like having a NWSL team has been a critical component of the newer teams (NYC, ATL, Cincy, Minny) only Orlando launched one. The merger of the already existing youth soccer programs into an academy was a smart move and joining the USSF board sounds nice but none of that will make Raleigh a more desirable or profitable market compared to it's in-state rival. Having 50k plus show up to ICC in Charlotte matches compared to roughly 10-15k in Cary for a USMNT match (that should have been a sold out event at Carter Finley) also says that the logic of Raleigh loving soccer more is a bit of a baseless argument, especially when it's really Greensboro that goes the hardest for the game. RDC just has the big name programs specifically those Tar Heel men and women.
Let me stop being petty and biased, but I do feel like Charlotte is preferred. Raleigh is a good market and would be successful, I'm definitely not arguing against that. I just would rather see Charlotte
Here's a piece about the white flight from St Louis and how a series of small towns like Ferguson resulted: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-profits-from-poverty/?utm_term=.e9dc95bee4fa
And sold out 85% capacity compared to the Canes at 71%. The Canes have hovered around 28th in attendance and have been last a couple of times since 2014 while never even selling 3/4 of their arena. Charlotte only dipped below 90% twice in that span, which coincides with the Hornets rebrand. Even going back to 2010 when they were the cats the arena was at 85% capacity on average, in spite of the OG Hornets relocation. Even at the minor league level both the Checkers and Knights either lead their leagues regularly or are in the top 10 in attendance regularly so it's not just basketball or the Panthers that are well supported here. The Independence have failed to catch on but that situation is pretty cut and dry, the club failed to meet a lot of their promises and expectations that they made for themselves and don't have the money to run an operation close to any of the top USL sides like Louisville or a bid like Phoenix. We can debate about it just because I enjoy the rivalry of the two cities but Charlotte is always going to be a better city for a pro team while Raleigh will always be a better minor league and college sports town.
Yeah, let's have a Charlotte vs Raleigh pissing context. Maybe we can just get @nancyb to bring her old USMNT N&A moderator's dick measuring ruler out of storage to settle this.
I told you I am both biased and petty on the topic...other than that I mean no harm. That said I'm down for a spitting contest.
That's unfair, while I may not want this bid to succeed over Charlotte it's still my secondary in hopes that the Carolinas get a team in some form. I've posted info & links in this thread before too I can't help it Raleigh folks get so sensitive and make trolling easy.
Or not be so sensitive about the whole thing. Be it Independence vs NCFC or city vs city it is a rivalry. I'm sure y'all wouldn't be so salty if your bid had more traction.
Who is being "sensitive". Not wanting to get into a pissing contest isn't "sensitive" - it's being an "adult". Try it sometime. If you actually read this and other Raleigh and NC threads, I've long been the bearer or reality and doom. And Charlotte vs Raleigh is a false construct with regards to MLS. They're only in competition with regards to 10 bids for one spot left to #28. Fun fact: Neither Charlotte, nor Raleigh will get spot #28. After that, they're just two different options. The fact that most BigSoccer posters seem to have trouble figuring out where North Carolina is exactly, and seem to think it's about the size of Rhode Island with the population of Montana, the MLS Board of Governors isn't that stupid. The BoG also doesn't post on BigSoccer. If poking holes in the Raleigh bid makes you feel better about the Charlotte bid, good for you, but you don't need to be an asshole or try to make it into some sort of contest that it isn't. You've been posting in this thread for quite a while, and I have a large post on the previous page where I lay out in quite a bit of detail all the problems with a Raleigh bid, especially and NCFC bid. Like I've said all along. I wish Charlotte luck, I hope they get a team. I do think any Charlotte (or Raleigh for that matter) bid that doesn't include a soccer specific stadium is pretty much a complete non-starter regardless of what is going on in Atlanta. If you refuse to understand the difference between Atlanta and Charlotte (or Raleigh or Detroit or Foxborough or Glendale...) I can't really help you. If you've got hard news about the Raleigh bid, bring it. I'm sure you, I, and the one or two other people who occasionally look at this thread will be interested in reading it. If you just want to opine on how 9 years of not making the Stanley Cup Playoffs in a league where 50% makes the postseason, combined with the financial declines and disinterest from the Karmanos side of Gale Force Holdings (including being sued by his sons) and try to show how that proves something about the viability of professional soccer in the Triangle, I suggest you're in the wrong thread. You keep trying to posit Raleigh fans as being sensitive, but I don't know who the hell you're talking about. Unless you're also posting somewhere else. There aren't really any Raleigh fans here on BigSoccer anymore. They've all left. I'm not a "Raleigh fan". I'm a Sporting Kansas City fan. I do live in Durham, but I work in the industry. It would be more convenient to have a team in Raleigh than in Charlotte, but frankly, I'd prefer both. It's a lot better than the trip to DC, Philly, Columbus, Atlanta, or Orlando - all of which I make somewhat regularly. I work -indirectly- for Steve Malik. I am the photographer of Courage games for the NWSL's contracted photo agency - but I'm not the team photographer. I shoot under league orders. I also work occasional USSF events for USSF, again with Malik on the USSF Board. My biggest client is MLS/SUM. I may be an SKC "fan", but that fandom gets buried when I get to the stadium - whether it is Red Bull Arena or Children's Mercy Park. I'm not the least bit "sensitive" about the Raleigh bid. I am "sensitive" about misinformation in any factor. For/against any bid. If you were trying to oversell Raleigh, I'd be correcting that, too. There is a lot of emotion and speculation with regards to MLS expansion that gets posted as "facts". Again, you and I are pretty much the only posters left here, so bully for that.
It's funny because you're that deep in your feelings that you posted a whole article when it won't change anything. Charlotte and Raleigh will still be jockeying for an undetermined slot, Independence and NCFC will remain rivals in the meantime, Charlotte and Raleigh will reamin rivals. I didn't even go on a rant till somebody brought up the Hornets rank in their league, so I pointed to their capacity compared to the Canes. Effectively, you're mad because my points have been valid. Prior to having a debate in here we had the same convo in the 28 sooner or later thread. I'm not wrong for posting opinions, links and facts in these forums. You can ignore me, find a valid argument that sterilizes my own or, keep getting in your feels every time I explain why MLS will pursue Charlotte over Raleigh every time.
In regards to Raleigh, an article came out in the triangle business journal saying that their is also a PNC replacement bid (for the Canes) that us also asking for public money. Between competition for a stadium site, league slot and the MLS's favor this seems less likely that Malik gets in without a bullish investor who decides to join him in spite of Dundon's recent claim that MLS advised him to invest in another market.
https://www.wralsportsfan.com/sport...ork-play-plan-called-downtown-south/18471610/ https://www.wralsportsfan.com/backers-now-is-the-time-for-downtown-raleigh-stadium-project/18472568/ https://www.wraltechwire.com/2019/0...lus-to-development-south-of-downtown-raleigh/ This location has a ton of potential. I wonder if it will get built just for the Courage and a USL team.
does Raleigh's public have the votes to contribute to Malik's plans with public money?? If they do they jump Charlotte probably. If they dont..... its as dead as Indianapolis. Legitimately curious i looked around the googlewebs and didnt find much of anything on it.
They have not been approved or denied the money by vote yet, what has happened is that the city and county did not recommend that project and instead chose PNC renovations plus a smaller indoor arena for that funding to be used on. The logic seems to be that NCFC hasn't proven they can fill out a 20k seat stadium and their MLS bid seems to lack interest from the league (only time you see Raleigh mentioned is when interested cities are listed and never as a direct quote from MLS). What is concerning is that the developer is not willing to go through with the project without the 13 mill a year from the tax fund so it may not happen at all unless they can somehow get passed the recommended list and get the votes they need.
Mark Crosby @mbingcrosby My first attempt at a #MLS2CLT logo. What do you think? @MintCityColl @mlsqueencity @MLS