(non-Quakes) SJMN 9/5 article on possible CyberRays move

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by ThreeApples, Sep 5, 2003.

  1. mike mcclellan

    mike mcclellan New Member

    Sep 19, 2002
    San Jose
    I'd love to see this, but all I keep seeing is the somewhere near mass exodus of Women's World Cup fans leaving before the EQs game and at halftime last week.

    As I've said before, I personally don't think that any objective soccer fan would not be more impressed with the Earthquakes if you put the two products side by side. However, when I brought my mother-in-law and sister-in-law to the double header early in the season, they felt they could only watch one game and chose the 'Rays then left before the Quakes game.

    So the question becomes how do you (can you) reach the casual fans that may have seen the Womens World Cup on TV and turn them into rabid soccer fans?

    Regarding the 'Rays fans that may or may not be alienated by the team getting moved, why is it that they would be against supporting the Earthquakes? IMO we've only helped market their product (and ours) through double headers, a tribute to them winning the cup, etc. It would seem petty to blame their team's failure on a team that was already here before the WUSA even came into existence. Hopefully the fans that truly enjoy soccer would cross over into the Blue and Black.
     
  2. mike mcclellan

    mike mcclellan New Member

    Sep 19, 2002
    San Jose
  3. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No gloating!

    I don't think that any MLS fan should gloat over this. I realize that there are probably a number of factors in the collapse, but it should also serve to remind us how much a niche sport soccer still is in this country.
     
  4. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, but the male player segment of the sport was already well established.
     
  5. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One point here. Where were all those "fans of the women's game" when it came to supporting the CyberRays? They never showed up. I think half of them were there just for the spectacle.
     
  6. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member

    May 20, 2001
    The NO SOCCER Zone
    That's why I'm saying proper olive branches and contrition. You should see the animosity starting already...not so much against MLS per se, but against Mens sports in general. Flip over to the WUSA boards and read some of the venom already on display. One post in particular stating that if it wasn't for women's soccer she never would have watched soccer and now that women's soccer no longer exists at the WUSA level she'll never watch another soccer game again (USMNT, MLS, whatever).

    Those fans we won't get, for certain. But we can and ought to reach out with some sort of incentive to Rays ticket holders for 2004. Then emulate the marketing strategy the Rays used to reach out to the youth soccer community that turned out to be so successful.
     
  7. Hawkeye17

    Hawkeye17 DynaChick v QuakeBabe v WildKate v Chewie23

    Aug 25, 1999
    Miami Vice 82
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: No gloating!

    Thank you!

    Really a sad day since a knock on women's soccer in terms of wanting them to fail is a knock on the men as well.

    The players and investors did all they could to keep the league afloat but overall it was the crowds, the economy, and no Anschutz type figure to invest in the league that did them in.

    At least, we have to be thankful that MLS will be staying around for a while since they have been able to attract investors and by far playing their cards right. Also, having Phil Anschutz around to invest and funnel money into the league has been the major difference up to now.

    It's still a niche sport, but there are smart minds with a plan to run MLS. Still, suspending operations before the start of a major tournament is a distraction to the players and a calculated risk for the women's league.

    Cheers!
     
  8. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member

    May 20, 2001
    The NO SOCCER Zone
    I know this is a reach...but should MLS step in in "duplicate" markets (Washington, Boston, San Jose, etc...) and annex the franchises to "save" them (so to speak) and establish a WLS? Would MLS be envisioned as a white knight or a vulture?

    Discuss...
     
  9. mike mcclellan

    mike mcclellan New Member

    Sep 19, 2002
    San Jose
    Agreed. In no way am I gloating over this. As I said before, just more amunition for the soccerphobes in the mainstream media to try to make the case that soccer will never work in the US.

    I've long felt that all American soccer fans were deeply indebted to the women for playing an attractive brand of soccer when the men stunk things up in France. To a large degree, they kept the sport afloat.

    Knowing how crappy it felt reading "The Earthquakes are moving rumours" a few weeks ago on another board, I feel for the fans that have lost their teams today. Hopefully there won't be any animousity from WUSA fans towards MLS and they someday will find the MLS to be an acceptible, if not superior, substitute.
     
  10. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If it got those teams going again, it seems more like a white knight role to me. The fans are going to want to see those teams again. I don't know how MLS could do it, it doesn't sound financially feasible to me considering the present situation, but.....
     
  11. mike mcclellan

    mike mcclellan New Member

    Sep 19, 2002
    San Jose
    Yes!! Hire their entire marketing department while we're at it.

    The timing of this sucks and will only cast a huge dark cloud over the WCC. Should have quietly folded in another month or two (Say during the World Series.)

    Interesting idea on the annexing, don't some european teams do this? While I think it would tax our fledgling league a little too much, it is an interesting notion nonetheless. I'd play each game as a double header and use players from both teams to market to the families.

    Probably too much hatred already generated, but what a great way to keep things going and build a cross over fan base.
     
  12. DougO

    DougO Member

    Jan 2, 2001
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a San Jose MLS season ticket holder for 8 seasons and a WUSA season ticket holder for 3 seasons, this sucks. But it has to be said that the attempt to start the women's league when the men's league was having trouble and still does, in financial terms, was pretty ambitious, and has turned out to have been too much so. Maybe if the economy hadn't been so bad during this particular 3 years, WUSA might have had a better chance.

    I don't see a white knight role being possible for MLS. MLS has to stick to becoming viable with the core product, meaning getting costs under control while becoming more attractive, meaning more Soccer specific stadiums - and more expansion teams into Portland, Philadelphia, Austin, Raleigh, St Louis, and other regional hotspots with a soccer appetite - before we look for charity cases to help. We're not dealing from a position of strength- taking on such a role would be an albatross.

    This will hurt the women's programs at the college level- all those girls playing club soccer just had a dream taken away. This is a real shame.

    DougO
     
  13. Rumbler

    Rumbler New Member

    Feb 6, 2003
    San Jose
    My guess is that maybe women's soccer will be back in 5 years or so. It would have to piggy back on the MLS, because if Garber's mission of building soccer specific stadiums pan out, women's soccer will be back once again. Rent is so expensive and not profitable for soccer in other stadiums that once these SSS are built, we will have a good foundation for both men's and women's soccer to be profitable. They'll be back.
     
  14. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here he comes!

    Radnich is ready on KRON-4 to make his comments on the WUSA demise. I'm crossing myself now.
     
  15. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp "WUSA - R.I.P."

    &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp GO EARTHQUAKES!!! :(


    -G
     
  16. Oh_Teddy_Teddy

    Apr 7, 2003
    Mountain View, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Spartacus (as always) had it right earlier; The lack of TV money (and Sponsorship, etc) was the major factor in it's failure.

    What is interesting to me about all of the leagues that fail is that few of them failed because attendance Fell short of expectations. I am sure that 7-8k per game would have been welcomed as a break even number for the league at the outset. As a matter of fact, from what I read at the founding of MLS, 10 to 12 thousand fans growing to 15k was considered the needed number. Well, we exceed that number league wide, but still lose millions a year. (Even in the 80's, the old USFL had crowds that exceeded expectations but were done in by other factors, including a salary spree).

    It seems that instead of overestimating the amount of people interested in showing up to these events, leagues fail (including the WUSA) because

    a) The underestimate the importance of TV and sponsorship on the revenue side, and

    b) They underestimate expenses, such as stadium rents, travel, salaries, liability insurance, etc.
     
  17. doppelganger

    doppelganger Member

    Jul 6, 2001
    santa cruz, ca
  18. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member

    May 20, 2001
    The NO SOCCER Zone
    Once again, O_T_T, you flatter me.

    Not to mention they overestimated the number of women that would buy tickets to a league of women, by women, and for women. I think their evangelical zeal rubbed many potential ticket buyers the wrong way and alienated their potential audience who didn't want to be associated with such fanaticism. At what point does it stop being a "women's issue" and start becoming pure sport?
     
  19. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know about the evangelical zeal, but Marlene Bjornsrud was still saying that in the interview with her by Lloyd LaQuesta [sp?] on KTVU-2 last night. She was lamenting the fact that they were unable to sell the amount of tickets to women that they had hoped for and wondering why women would not support a women's sport.
     
  20. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member

    May 20, 2001
    The NO SOCCER Zone
    Fixed Lloyd's spelling (yeah, like he reads these boards...)

    Anyhoo...that's been the whole problem. I've discussed it with many women in my office who are soccer fans who couldn't give a holy hand-grenade about women's soccer...because it's not part of their culture (and they or their families come from big soccer nations such as Italy or Argentina).

    Sooner or later, women's soccer will have to stand as a sport on its own merit and not be viewed as a cultural imperative for women to support a womens' issue or as a model "for all the little girls".
     
  21. sj_quakes_fan

    sj_quakes_fan Member

    May 18, 2001
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A-freakin'-men brother!
     
  22. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member

    May 20, 2001
    The NO SOCCER Zone
    The Divine Miss E checks in! I've been waiting to hear your perspective.
     
  23. sj_quakes_fan

    sj_quakes_fan Member

    May 18, 2001
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hmm...well you've pretty much said what I could say. Especially that last part I quoted.

    But it's a damn freakin shame the WUSA came to this. Sad day for US soccer. But perhaps the next time things will work out....
     
  24. JaguarCRO

    JaguarCRO New Member

    Aug 15, 2002
    Sunnyvale,CA
    My experience is limited (I only went to one CyberRays game that was a doubleheader with the Earthquakes at the beginning of the season, and one Women's National Team game), but based on our sample everyone we took to the games was more impressed with the MLS game than the Women's game.

    I think as far as attendence it can honestly only help. Of course one can't control the past to see what single change would have produced different results, but one thing definetly worth noting is SJ attendence.

    1996 17,232
    1997 13,597
    1998 13,653
    1999 14,959
    2000 12,460
    2001 9,635
    2002 11,150
    2003 (Partial year) Avg 9,855

    Now granted other factors may play into these numbers (As I am sure promotion and advertisment do), but it is certainly striking how the 3 worst years (by a large margin) of SJ attendence correspond exactly with the 3 years of the WUSA's existence.

    Now here is more evidence:

    New England suffered some of its worst numbers as well.
    DC United had one very good year in 2001 but then things suffered as well for 2002 & 2003.
    And the Metrostars had a good year in 2001 and then much worse numbers in 2002 & 2003.

    So with 4 clubs in the comparison it is clear that some factors can be eliminated (or at least dimished).

    Here are some things they shared:

    - All 4 of these clubs had a WUSA team in the same town.
    - All 4 lost attendence in a majority of the years that the WUSA operated.

    As an interesting counter-example I looked at the 6 remaining clubs that didn't have a local WUSA team that have been in operation for the full amount of time.

    Colorado - Record Setting 2001,2002 & 2003
    Columbus- Excellent years in 2001, 2002, and good in 2003
    Chicago - Bad 2002 & 2003, Good 2001
    Dallas - Very good 2001, 2002 , worst in 2003
    Kansas City - Very good in 2001, 2002, & Well over their record in 2003
    Los Angelos - okay in 2001, good in 2002 and excellent in 2003

    If I use a bit of editorial license and eliminate Chicago in 2003 (Very small stadium limiting attendence) (Dallas may have also suffered under this year at Southlake although I will keep them in.)

    So the summary of the "other 6" is that everybody except Chicago (note exception above) had 2 or 3 very competive to record setting attendence years. (out of possible 3)

    ....

    So after all this work what is the bottom line for San Jose? Attendence increase, and I think it will be very signifcant. For the last 2 years we have already seen marked increase of attendence numbers at the end of the season (Note: After the WUSA season has drawn to a close). I think we will see that again this year and...

    I think our attendence numbers will be up over 2,000 people on average next year compared to this year's numbers.:)



    ...
    (Note: Souce of stats.
    http://mlsnet.com/statistics/league.html
    http://www.kenn.com/soccer/mls/
    )
     
  25. Oh_Teddy_Teddy

    Apr 7, 2003
    Mountain View, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great points. My guess is also that even though the 7,000 to 8,000 per game they have drawn meets some original goals, the fact that such a large percentage were kids, paying lower ticket prices, hurt the revenue line.

    I talked to people who went to games to see "Brandi Chastain", or visiting "Mia Hamm". The league is just starting to build it's own stars, but without lots more TV exposure, who would have known them? Then watch the gates fall when the Mia's and Brandi's retired. This World Cup may have helped some of that problem, like we'll ever know.

    I think it's the curse of them putting their TV game up against the MLS games Saturday's at 1:00pm!!! What were they thinking! I think MLS ratings (ESPN2) will go up a bit (now we will just need a magnifying glass instead of a microscope to see them).
     

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