There is a reasonable, balanced way to critique the settler movement and Israeli policies in the occupied territories. This is not it.
i see you like propaganda. well there's certainly a lot of it in the middle east. you call sharon a terrorist for "your killing your wife and children", but if it's a jewish woman or child it's perfectly alright... you are not a very independent thinker, are you?!
Arafat will have a first class seat on the plane to Hell. Since it's going to Hell they probably won't even serve drinks.
Well, this may sound childish but who started all this and while the Palestinians are throwing rocks at Israeli tanks is it necessary for the Israelis to retaliate with gunfire and missiles?.....and no its not all right for anybody to die like that whether its an Israeli or a Palestinian but if Israel wants everything to themselves how can there ever possibly be a peace solution. I watch the worldwide coverage of the abuse the Palestinians endure from the Israelis which is invisible here in the United States. I'm originally from Europe where I really lived in a "FREE COUNTRY" not the United States where everything is monitored and they don't show you anything on TV. I've been fortunate enough to travel the world and nobody is as blind to whats going on in the world as an american citizen residing here in the states. If you have a satellite dish watch the BBC World news and educate yourself because Fox News, CNN, and MSNBC only show you one side of an issue while ignoring the facts. Arafat won a Nobel Peace Prize because he was recognized for his peace efforts around the world except for the U.S. and Israel. However in the United States, you have that jerk off Rudy Guilaini during the Republican National Convention call Arafat a terrorist time and time again. Since when did Israel have anything to do with the RNC? Is our candidate for presidency working for us or Israel? VOTE KERRY AND FREE PALESTINE
Re: Who's a terrorist? Who's a patriot? Hey if your from Israel or the United States you have a license to kill.
Unfortunately your right but he might bring some much needed credibility to a nation that is starving for some right now
Re: Who's a terrorist? Who's a patriot? Really? I do?!?!? Holy ******** man, that's freaking awesome! Well, not so awesome for a large part of the University of Michigan football team, but, you know, eggs, omelets and such.
In the interest of equal time, Pater unfamiliaris: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_Israelis Quite a read.
True...... After the Camp David talks, it made more sense that arafat needed to go. He wasn't realistic and/or he was never up to the task in the first place.
Always have been..... Did you know any problems in which occured between Lybia or Egypt? Or that Ghaddafi is no friend in Lebanon? Or that Syria and Jordan have border issues... Or that UAE got everyone to gang up on Iran on Water Issues... and that no one likes Saudi Arabia in the gulf.... who cares...your in the west, why should u care..... Infact, Darfur just passed you right by your tail......
Hello to my good friend sardinia Then when Jordan were the prime Architechts of what we know as the "WEST BANK" and annexxed that chunk of land of what was remaining of West Palestine Region, than how come no one called it dispute. If they never initiated the war, then what do you think the scenario would be today? Do you know what was the West Bank prior to 1967? It wasn't that long ago...only 37 years ago, Sardinia...someone might have recounted it.... Either way, im not gonna go and not allow the Palestinains a land. I do. The 1991 Madrid conference proved alot. The Palestinians were no friends of no one, they helped the Iraqis and they lost with the Iraqis. They lost friends in the Arab world and sympathizers worldwide. They came to Israel via numerous foreign diplomats and began to talk right after they 'declared the right for israel to exist' in 88 or 89. That followed with the 91 Madrid conference which was based on Resolution 242 and 338, as you know. Since the Palestinians came up to the Israelis and started to talk and agreed to talking, they have initiated round after round of negotiations..the success were: THe Oslo Accords The Gaza Accord The Hebron accords The Wye River Accord The Camp David II (which failed, ofcourse)! But either way, they have initiated negotiation with Israel regarding the status, wheter it is for 1,5,60,90 or 100% of the land, it will be negotiated and disputed......call it what you like.... Many of your Arab friends also call Israel itself a big dispute, so go wonder... Sardinia, Im not going to condone what the King(s) of Jordan did. The UN partion plan was more than fair; split up what was remaining of West Palestine and give it to the Jewish and Arab peoples. It wasn't the Palestinains who rejected it (unless your a follower of Al-Hamin Al Hussieni). What they would have gotten was more than they would have gotten today, unfortunately the Jordanians and Syrians as well as the Egyptians and lebanese had another idea for them, and unforunately, they is what occured today. Israel, is the one who is willing, under negotiations to make a Palestinian state. Something that the Palestinians themselves couldn't have done with the Monarchy for 19 years..... I can't stop what an autocratic regime does, they think one way, Israel thinks another... Having the upper hand on the conflict back in the 1967, Israel saw a chance for it. If you look closely on the map on the top area, near Jenin, you would see that what was to be the Portion to Israel in the 1948 was taken from Israel and made into the annexxed land. When Jordan annexxed what was the west bank, they also kicked out the jewish people who lived in places like Hebron, Jericho, Nablus and Bethlehem. These jews, who some dated back there villages in these areas to the time of the 2nd temple lost there homes and crop and fled west to Israel where they were absorbed. But whatever case it is, the "occupation" israel did was a way to end the attacks from Jordan happening. Jordan did not use the West Bank to it fullest. It used it as a fortress. Just think how the nearest border which is only 5 km to the meditaranian sea was for Jordan. Daily attacks and open gunfire, plus the unfortunate violation of the 1948 Armistice Ceasefie along with the 1967 proved that the Jordanians don't quit what there doing. When Israel went into occupy them, they were hoping to get the land lost (and then some) from what was the West Bank and force Jordan to stop the onslaught that they were doing. Luckily, as like in the Egypt-Israel agreement, Jordan had rounds of talks with Israel in 1983-1986. All failed, but were a breakthrough in hoping to get the Hashemite kindgom to make peace with Israel, while at the same time end there hostilities..... It doesn't! Israel once again, never saw an opprotunity to make a valud motive. What we did was gain land that was annexxed and we never justified it. What we did was have talks with the Palestinains. Things came out after 1991 on negotiation between Israel and the PLO on the status of Gaza and the West Bank. What the Jordnains, Syrians and Egyptians did to the Palestinains in achieving land is an internal arab problem which is best achieved between all the parties....not Israel! Fair enough! Stipulated in the Madrid Conference and needed to be negotiated on a time basis? what more do you want? I agree. But you have to understand that eventhough there is settlements and all those things, some settlements need to go. I am for that! I am not for losing important sites like the ones in Jerusalem. Arab Parts of East Jerusalme they can have, but then you have places like tomb of abraham in Hebron, which is holy to all religons. Why would israel lose its right to maintain it, while have the arabs get the Al-Aksa..... This is to be negotiated... Arafat is a character that's it! the sooner he'll go, the less control he will hold and the sooner that someone like Ahmed Quiri would be prime minister and a vice like Mahmood Abbas would come in... Optimism indeed my young man
Re: Who's a terrorist? Who's a patriot? Regarding your post there Sardinia.... Although theres no justification to what had happened in war time independence in Israel, the same thing cannot be said about other members from the Arab front. Remember, my heroes might be your terrorist and vice versa... Its very common in Europe... In Romania, you and me might think that Ion Iancescu (spelling!!!) might be a war criminal, but to the average romanian he is a noble man. Or in Croatia where Stepanac would be known as a saint for helping the country, but in reality, he was the prime agent for the nazis in Facist croatia...the list goes on Sardinia.. For Menachem begin and Co., the same is said. From my perspective, there was an Arab onslught and attacks that didn't start in the 1940's, but rather in the 1920's and beyond....... Groups like Hagana (In Hebrew: Defence) and the Irgun (IN Hebrew: Organization, The) were formed to 'protect' jewish civilians and there properties from arab attacks, but when the cause was less on the arabs and more on the British the purpose shifted, but thats a thing that someone has to digest in a war time situation... For me, Arafat is a criminal! But then again, for the Noble Comitte, he is a Noble Prize holder....times a "A" Changing, as Dylan would say.....
Re: Who's a terrorist? Who's a patriot? Slate has a nice piece on America's role in post-Arafat Palestine: http://slate.msn.com/id/2108886/fr/rss/ Not particularly optimistic, but is anyone?
1. yes, it is quite childish indeed! 2. i never intended to defend the israelis or palestians, it's just the doublestandard of your defenition of a terrorist which pissed me of!! 3. have a look at my location, i don't really need a satellite dish to watch the bbc... 4. your 'watch the bbc and educate yourself' just proves once again that you don't think very independent, and don't even try to. whereas there's no question that the bbc is galaxies better than fox news or cnn (who takes them serious in the first place?), the notion of watching ANY tv channel to get enlightened is frankly dumb!!! the bbc has many good programes, that doesn't mean that there's no propaganda, there's quite a lot of it in fact. it hardly ever questions the scare tactics of the goverment for example (with the exception of the 'power of nightmares'), actually it is more often than not a tool of these scares
arafat will see begin in hell. probably he will see meir, ben gurion, dayan and other self styled jewish patriots.
Hmm, lets think this out. The only democracy in the Middle East ? Israel of course. Therefore the only logical conclusion is democracy = zionism. Thanks for playing. And when Arafat endorses democracy for ANYONE (including his own Palestinian people) let me know.