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Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by johan neeskens, Nov 16, 2004.

  1. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    that American soldier who shot a wounded, unarmed Iraqi soldier through the head in the presence of an American film crew? (NBC I thought it was)

    Anyway contrary to what Nicephoras et al may expect, I actually feel sorry for the American soldier. The incident underscores that US government is asking the impossible of its military as far as I'm concerned.
     
  2. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I wouldn't have thought it's asking too much not to shoot an unarmed and injured man.
     
  3. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it is impossible to sit back here in the states reviewing video feed of war fighting and make battlefield decisions and second guess our front line troops... those that make such second guessing have no persepctive of the battlefield and invariably misunderstand what is going on. Insurgents are a deadly threat; tactics used by insurgents often involve "playing dead" and awaiting U.S. soldiers to lower their guns before they shoot. The soldier in question was shot just before this incident... I prefer to let the soldier involved make his case and on that I will rely.

    The traitors that seem to think this American soldier did something wrong are the same folks that have been against the war... as far as the "wounded, unarmed Iraqi soldier"; it has not yet been established he was wounded, unarmed, or even Iraqi, thus this sort of insurgent propaganda needs to be treated with disbelief.

    IntheNet
     
  4. Coach_McGuirk

    Coach_McGuirk New Member

    Apr 30, 2002
    Between the Pipes
    Well, there have been reports of insurgents feigning death and once the US Soldiers have layed down their weapons they have come up shooting.

    Also, just moments before the video one marine nearby died when a booby trapped body went off (the marines were preparing the dead for burial).

    So, in review, he had just witnessed a casualty used as a bomb and there have been instances where "death" was used as a cover.

    Perhaps we can spend equal time discussing the insurgents tactics of using Mosques to base themselves in and fighting from them, feigning death, feigning surrender, and using the dead as a weapon. The enemy is not held by the laws of the Geneva Convention so the US should not concern itself with it, either. Unfortunately the enemy, in this case, has opened the door to events like what took place on that tape.
     
  5. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Well if you read my post my point is that we all have to feel sorry for the enormous, almost impossible task the American soldiers are faced with. You've got to wonder about what will happend to these boys when they return home from the madness.
     
  6. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    I'm willing to listen to both sides of the story and generally support the troops, but it looked pretty barbaric to me. If this is what happens when the cameras are on...
     
  7. Benito

    Benito Red Card

    Aug 25, 2004
    I rather see a film crew in the Netherlands showing all the innocent moslems getting beat up there by non moslems over that one killing of one man with the famous name by that one misguided moslem.
     
  8. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Whatever the circumstances of the incident, the incident itself is beyond defence. He walked up to a prone figure, shouted "this one's still breathing!" and, barely a second later, shot him straight in the head from point-blank range. There's no context that can be used as justification for that. It also bears remembering that other injured men were stirring in the room as the unit entered, including the one that actually spoke to the NBC journalist. None of this soldier's colleagues even raised their guns, let alone fired them at any of the other clearly alive, apparently unarmed figures.

    It's all very well to say that there was no way of being certain that none of these men posed a threat, but that's a long way from being a decent reason to jsut summarily shoot someone who, according to reports of the off-camera events, did nothing to indicate he was a threat to the soldiers present.

    Having said that, I prefer to view this as an example of American checks and balances swiftly impacting a terrible situation - the soldier has been removed from active duty, is being questioned about the events and we should allow that process to fully complete before making final judgements on his motivation for doing what he did. He deserves the chance to explain himself, even if he is already beyond justifying what he did.
     
  9. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    There's a separate thread about that subject, why don't you place your comments on there.
     
  10. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sounds like you have already convicted him in your mind...
     
  11. sardus_pater

    sardus_pater Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Sardinia Italy EU
    Club:
    Cagliari Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  12. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    :rolleyes:

    Yes. That's exactly what I said.

    Tell you what - in your next life, let's hope you get to do this with the benefit of human intelligence. You might like it and we would certainly find more use for you.
     
  13. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Apparently Matt the bloke that did it had been shot by an Iraqi just the day before. I'm not saying the incident should go unpunished by I can imagine soldiers getting caught up in the madness of it all.
     
  14. sardus_pater

    sardus_pater Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Sardinia Italy EU
    Club:
    Cagliari Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    He should have known a camera was there. If there had not been a camera around nothing had happened.

    Again, as I already said in another thread, this is what happens in a war.

    War doesn't produce heroes, war produces monsters who often keep big psychological problems for years and years.

    The hero for one side often is a monster for the other.

    The cycle is endless any fighter in a war has seen friends killed and has been shot against.

    I am not going to bet I would be a gentleman in wartime.

    That's why I blame leaders rather than common fighters who are ordered and have to face death.

    btw ... shooting a defenceless wounded man in coldblood looks a bit too much...
     
  15. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Er, wrong!
     
  16. scottycap

    scottycap New Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Facking news media! During my first trip "in that region" I had to deal with a lot of new media types and these folks were always in the way, never followed instructions and did a report on our organization that completely misrepresented us....NO ONE on this board has the first clue of what the events leading up to this incident were and would be foolish to make accusations and draw conclusions...there are probably only 3 people that know what happened...one of them is dead.
     
  17. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    For someone who claims to be ignoring me, why do you constantly mention me? :confused: :confused:
     
  18. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    She secretly has a thing for you.
     
  19. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Just to cover the point about the alleged difference in fighting wars now and in the past, an old friend of mine that fought in the British Army across Europe and North Africa told me that, if you found bodies you were instructed NOT to try and find any means of identification or anything else until you'd checked thoroughly for wires and other signs of booby traps. Another guy I worked with who fought with the Chindits always said that the only good J(a)p was a dead J(a)p because they would feign death if they were injured and then try and kill you.

    This idea that in some way we are fighting an opponent who uses entirely different and more sinister methods is total cobblers.

    Apart from anything else I would suggest that, if you think someone may have a trigger to explosives that they are about to set off, your better course of action might be to take cover... NOT shoot the guy which might cause a spasm making him squeeze the trigger or whatever.
     
  20. scottycap

    scottycap New Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    Oklahoma City, OK

    "You don't win wars by dying for your country....you win by making the other poor bastard die for his" Patton...
    Unfortunately you still have to check the bodies for intel and booby traps... He could have a valuable piece of information...just don't be the one that searces him.... make sure you're the one thats covering him, at the ready.
     
  21. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Don't you feel honoured?
     
  22. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    No.
     
  23. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tell you what Matt: you don't like how our Armed Forces assures your liberty then get over there and do it yourself. Otherwise, keep it closed!
     
  24. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Not even with with Hillary's dick.
     
  25. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Fixed.
     

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