No more just the big blond backup - The comrade Lunin thread

Discussion in 'Real Madrid' started by Hendrix22, Aug 11, 2023.

  1. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Kepa has about 7 seasons of starting spot top level football to Lunin. We know his flaws, his abilities pretty much have the whole scouting report.

    Lunin hasn't completed a single season as a starter at the top level. Even when we sent him on loan the teams benched him.

    I personally think he hasn't really been in a situation where he was tested, although I can't say I've seen him fail. He's been solid, as Kepa has.

    Lunin's wife who's also allegedly managing him said if they get an offer from a club for the starting spot he's gone, and I fully agree with her. He's 24, if he sits behind Courtois the only thing that will happen is we'll sign the next Courtois when he's available and he'll have wasted crucial years of his career.

    Goalkeepers are a tricky bunch. Courtois received a very critical reception and people rejoiced in his initial weakness in form. But in hindsight signing proven quality always prevails in this position.

    You don't nurture and promote a guy, you just go get that player like Bayern did with Kahn and Neuer. Casillas isn't the norm, he's the exception.

    Lunin should go somewhere and PLAY. Odegaard did the same, you can't sit and waste your career.
     
  2. Digital

    Digital Member+

    Dec 10, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    All of the above maybe true, which is fair enough, but this..
    IMHO lacks some context and isn’t a fair comparison, Lunin came to Madrid when he was what, 19? Behind decent keepers, He’s not going to start, Kepa started at a team that is not Madrid, his chances of starting were far higher, hence far more exposure, so I don’t think the difference is solely because of quality, more circumstances.

    As for the loans I’m pretty sure even you have posted about what benefit teams ( especially lower level teams) that take our players on loan gain by playing and promoting players who aren’t theirs and who won’t be around long term, maybe the same applied to Lunin, who knows…..

    Lunin was/is in a bit of a catch 22 situation, who wouldn’t jump at the chance to come to Madrid, especially as a young player, but then he doesn’t get to play to showcase his skills which obviously the scouts saw in him to begin with, lacking game time means lacking continuity so we never get to see the best of him, and now, he’s stuck behind Tbo, we are just barely seeing a glimpse of what he can do after all this time.
     
  3. Hendrix22

    Hendrix22 Member+

    Feb 28, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    From what I can tell, the plan was always to groom Lunin into a successor for Courtois, not to have him as the backup goalkeeper forever. We didn't buy him to develop him into a backup keeper. And it seemed he was fine with this plan. If he waited all this time, it would be silly to give up now. It was only by bringing Kepa that the plan changed. In the end I don't see the next Courtois on the horizon and this should factor too.
     
  4. arcane

    arcane Member+

    Aug 18, 2005
    Philippines
    Thibo is still a huge question mark. Him automatically regaining his starting spot is to be expected.

    But his return to to his pre ACL performances is not a sure thing. The club might be looking for a new starting keeper sooner than we might expect.
     
  5. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    There's only one goalkeeper playing, so if there's a good to great goalkeeper at the club, the second guy is basically there to hand water bottles, be a good team mate etc.

    Lunin has no immediate future at the club, if he stays he's an idiot. It's just like "Odegaard developing behind Modric and Kroos" when he's approaching 30 now and they're still playing.

    You can develop any other position on the field because in most cases you can either play more than one of them or call a substitution.

    Nobody is wasting a substitution on the goalkeeper on a regular basis.
     
  6. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #56 4x4s, Nov 28, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
    That will be somebody of Thibos pedigree and class, not a 24 year old with zero relevant experience.

    Lubin feels like something people want to happen than something that's realistic.

    We went from Navas to Courtois. Kepa is good enough until Courtois comes back, but if something dramatic happens, I don't think we should settle for anything less than top class. You can survive with a less than great goalkeeper, but Barca kicked out their guy and got themselves one, Liverpool despite Klopp's posturing got themselves one.

    This isn't a learn on the job position because goals are not cheap.
     
  7. arcane

    arcane Member+

    Aug 18, 2005
    Philippines
    Still doesn't justify Kepa's pricetag over Lunin's if it was just for a holdover.
     
  8. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Kepa is on loan, I don't get your point here.

    There is no way a responsible club would go into the season with just Lunin and a Castilla substitute.
     
  9. Ahmadi8

    Ahmadi8 Member+

    Apr 14, 2005
    Bahrain
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahrain
    Who is on the market? And you think the club should be fine with throwing an obscene amount on a position that you believe is easy to find options for?
     
  10. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Why are we treating Courtois as if he lost a limb?

    Until he proves otherwise he's best goalkeeper in the world status and that is around what we're expecting for him mid term when he comes back.

    By the time we search for the next solution, we're going to get a great goalkeeper. This 1A and 1B solution never really works. It's one goalkeeper that separates himself.

    I don't know what the idea was when we brought Lunin in, but Neuer is 37 off a near deadly accident and got a new contract. Goalkeepers have a long shelf life.

    The future for Lunin and Kepa is elsewhere, unless either of them if fully aware of their spot as a substitute.
     
  11. Ahmadi8

    Ahmadi8 Member+

    Apr 14, 2005
    Bahrain
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahrain
    I think its clear we are talking hypothetically.

    Who would be the best option if Courtois isn't in the picture?
     
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  12. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Never thought about it. Will do so if it occurs though.

    Lunin isn't going to base his future on the eventuality of a guy going from world best to retirement because of an injury either.

    You can apply that to Vinicius too. Or any other injured player. That we should already be thinking about replacing them. That's weird, isn't it?

    Haven't heard anybody putting the speech together for Militaos retirement either.
     
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  13. arcane

    arcane Member+

    Aug 18, 2005
    Philippines
    Kepa is costing more than twice as Lunin in wages. And Kepa isn't showing he he vastly superior to Lunin.

    If we go by your logic, the club shouldn't have gone with Joselu as the lone striker either, yet here we are.
     
  14. arcane

    arcane Member+

    Aug 18, 2005
    Philippines
    Are those two players you mentioned in their 30s?
     
  15. Shay Z

    Shay Z Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 3, 2007
    ACL injury in this day and age and especially for a GK isn't a death sentence even if you are in your 30s. Seems to me a couple of you guys are worrying too much about something that's not happened. If Tbo comes back and he is not the best GK in the world right away he will still be given a full season maybe even more before the club starts to look around for a replacement and that replacement will be one of the best in the world. But i think Tbo will be just fine.
     
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  16. arcane

    arcane Member+

    Aug 18, 2005
    Philippines
    No one i panicking. It's just something to keep an eye on. Even with the best modern medicine, nothing is fool proof.

    It's always the overreactions that get me.
     
  17. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Neuer had his leg almost amputated in the emergency room and got a contract extension just last week at age 37.

    I think Lunin has shown that he can have a fulfilling career. I almost feel it's egoistic and unfair to place him on the bench for almost an entire career.

    We'll be fine. He deserves to have a shot at this. I hope the club gives him a realistic idea of what his chances are.
     
  18. Hendrix22

    Hendrix22 Member+

    Feb 28, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    But I don't care if hes an idiot, I care for the best of the club. If him being an idiot is in the best interest of the club, I hope hes an idiot. I wish Odegaard was an idiot and he was here now.

    About Lunin, it means we basically invested years and years of salary in this guy and just as the fruit is ripe we will cast him away and spend even more money (and it would have to be A LOT) on a new goalkeeper which isn't really in sight in terms of being as good as Courtois before injury. Its giving up on the original plan without a good reason.

    Also I don't think this is a distant decision, I honestly can't see Courtois going deep in his 30s with the same ability that he had. Sure, ACL is not what it used to be, but for big guys who need agility and leaping it makes a difference. Remember we got rid of Keylor when he was 32 and he was showing signs of decline.
     
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  19. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I don't trust a player that doesn't have any ambition to play. Signing up to be a career substitute is the peak "no ambition" move.

    Plus, we got rid of Keylor because we signed a genetic freak that's over 2 meters tall and has a neck longer than most people have calf muscles.

    It's not like we speculated on a promise, we got the golden goose and the magic bean in one player to replace him with.
     
  20. Hendrix22

    Hendrix22 Member+

    Feb 28, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    You call it lack of ambition, but if he expected to be the next in line to take over from Thibaut, then its patience and loyalty. And thats what I keep trying to get accross - I think that was the plan from the beginning and thats what he expected. Why else would you buy a young goalkeeper and not a veteran if its just for him to be the backup forever? So in the end I think it was the club that broke the agreement, not him.
     
  21. zizou555

    zizou555 Member

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 4, 2007
    Newcastle Upon Tyne
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    The age doesn't match. Years would have been wasted from lunin s career before theatrically courtois would be done. I think they saw a lot of potential and hoped he would become worldclass. He became really good.i would renew him if he wants to stay, but it's best for him that he goes and becomes a starter elsewhere.if they still had his contract, I would let him go with a buyback clause.
     
  22. Digital

    Digital Member+

    Dec 10, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Let’s be honest, at 18 or 19 or whatever I doubt Lunin “signed up to be a career substitute”, I could be wrong, but I believe having that opportunity to move from the Ukraine to Real Madrid, to have a chance to play for Madrid was a very motivating factor, not many young players refuse that.

    This career substitute narrative isn’t realistic to me, IMO he came very young and therefore he wasn’t trusted at the time when a change needed to be made, this is Madrid, he might not have been Iker but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t good, then we got Tbo, when an opportunity like that arises Madrid have to take it, especially since Tbo really wanted to come here.

    I don’t think the picture you are trying to paint that he is not ambitious is an accurate one, I think circumstances hurt him more than anything else, but as I said, that’s just my opinion.
     
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  23. Ahmadi8

    Ahmadi8 Member+

    Apr 14, 2005
    Bahrain
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahrain
    Tibo fell into Florentino's and the club's lap. Anyone suggesting the club chased must be remembering it wrong.

    No one expected he would be available and would push his move out of London. The club was lucky he loved Madrid so much he was willing to piss off his former club just to move back to Spain.
     
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  24. arcane

    arcane Member+

    Aug 18, 2005
    Philippines
    Club doesn't consider timelines when the opportunity arises.

    Thibo was an opportunistic buy. Thats why Perez is still after the turtle even if he overlaps with Endrick's.
     
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  25. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid

    This is why I always say you can't plan and make promises. If Lunin wants to take advantage of the most crucial part of his career he has to look for an opportunity for himself. Sitting around waiting for a golden opportunity is a catastrophic decision.

    Nothing is guaranteed and if the next great goalkeeper becomes available in 2 or 3 years he's back to nowhere and nothing.
     

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