No more infomercials on FOX Soccer effective July 2

Discussion in 'TV, Satellite & Radio' started by huhe888, Jul 1, 2012.

  1. huhe888

    huhe888 Red Card

    Oct 3, 2007
    FOX Soccer will no longer have infomercials effective July 2.

    The early morning hours will now be filled with:

    5am ET-9am ET - re-air of news program (FOX Soccer Report from Shaw Media in Winnipeg through Sep 1, new program from Rogers Media in Toronto starting Sep 2) except Sundays, when live EPL kicks off at 8:30am ET once season starts

    9am ET - live simulcast of Sky Sports News on Mondays-Fridays, pre-match show on Saturdays, live EPL on Sundays

    10am ET-12noon ET - live EPL on Saturdays and Sundays, or re-air if no live match were available.
     
  2. coracaodoporto

    Jan 3, 2012
    Club:
    FC Porto
    Huhe your opinion on this? What does this mean for the future of the channel?
     
  3. huhe888

    huhe888 Red Card

    Oct 3, 2007
    No mystery to anyone that FOX is getting ready for war.

    The U.S. rights to EPL for August 2013-May 2016 will be contested between:

    FOX Sports-ESPN-Univision Deportes

    vs

    beIN SPORT-NBC Sports-Deportes Telemundo

    Enough hire guns and enough U.S.-based supporters are now taking sides in this war.

    The psychological "war before the war" has already begun.

    I have already heard from several U.S.-based supporter group branches (of EPL clubs) that they are actively lobbying their club officials of the following:

    1. Convince Richard Scudamore and co. to use the leverage of the beIN SPORT-NBC Sports-Deportes Telemundo bid to forbid FOX Sports from putting premium EPL matches (i.e. Manchester United vs Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City, Tottenham) on FOX Soccer or FOX Soccer Plus so that FOX Sports will be forced to put these matches on FX or FOX free-to-air.

    2. Convince Richard Scudamore and co. to reject any bid from beIN SPORT-NBC Sports-Deportes Telemundo of less than $600 million even if FOX Sports-ESPN-Univision Deportes were to bid $300 million (which I believe to be unlikely, because FOX Sports will lose money if it has to contribute $150 million to the bid), because (in the opinion of these supporter groups) a "risk premium" of any less than $5 million/season/club is not worth the risk of switching U.S. TV rights holders.

    In other words, several U.S.-based supporter groups of EPL clubs do NOT trust beIN SPORT, NBC Sports Network, or CNBC with EPL.

    (Reminder: the current valuation of U.S. TV rights to EPL is only around $20 million/season, or $60 million for the current 3-year cycle. A $300 million bid would be 5x of current valuation. A $600 million bid wold be 10x of current valuation.)

    We'll see how this thing shakes down, as the deadline for the tender for the U.S. rights to EPL will likely be sometime between August 31 and September 30.
     
  4. stingbee30

    stingbee30 Member

    Mar 16, 2006

    No where I have heard anything about FOX-ESPN-Univision combined bid...But, We will give you the benefit of the doubt...My take is that EPL is not so concerned about the money when it comes to the US market. The US market is growing and there is more uptick for EPL. It doesn't make sense for EPL to award the rights to a unknown entity in the US market. So, if beIN Sport is secretly negotiating with NBC/Comcast, then it could have some leverage. At this moment, EPL will rather go with the known players versus using a complex partnership for an upcoming unknown entity within the US market. This could come into play in the next cycle after the 2016 season....

    EPL is important for Fox Soccer, and ESPN is very much interested in upping their coverage for EPL. The first 3 years of EPL for ESPN was like a trail: testing the market and see what happens. They have seen the potential for this property. The successful EURO 2012 tournament is going to attract more US viewers to European club football (especially the EPL)...The big EPL match-ups are going to see substantial rating increase in the coming months and years.

    If ESPN retains the property (I think they will), then you are going to see a few more matches on ESPN versus ESPN2.
     
  5. huhe888

    huhe888 Red Card

    Oct 3, 2007
    That's because you continue to sit on your fat a-- instead of making phone calls to sources (and I do NOT consider PR flacks via Twitter as "sources".)

    Like it or not, you have allowed yourself to be used in the "psychological war" FOX Sports (and possibly ESPN, Inc.) may or may not be orchestrating behind the scenes, especially with someone such as Liverpool FC principal partner John W. Henry who is a Financial Engineer by training.

    The entire "risk premium" concept with respect to U.S. rights to EPL has surfaced within the past 30 days from various off-the-record discussions.

    The "risk premium" concept comes from the world of bonds, which I trust that you have some understanding of because you are a registered financial adviser.

    A Spanish government bond has to pay a higher interest rate compared to a German government bond because the risk of default by Spain is much higher than the risk of default by Germany, just as the risk of loss of brand value in the U.S. for Man United, Liverpool, Arsenal, and Chelesa is higher if EPL were to switch to beIN SPORT-NBC Sports-Telemundo instead of FOX-ESPN-Univision because 1) a perceived threat that ESPN SportsCenter will ignore EPL if ESPN were not a U.S. sublicensee of EPL, and 2) beIN SPORT 1 may not be able to gain sufficient carriage by cable/satellite TV MSOs, and 3) casual sports fans are too lazy to use their remote controls to switch channels as they leave their TV sets on ESPN(1) 24/7.

    I don't have enough information to know whether the supporters of various EPL clubs are acting on their own, or whether FOX Sports is mobilizing EPL supporters in the U.S. to do its dirty work by attempting to convince the FAPL (Scudamore and the American owners of the big clubs) to reject a much bigger bid by beIN SPORT-NBC Sports-Telemundo.

    I keep hearing from multiple supporter groups that they are lobbying the FAPL to reject any bid of less than $600 million from beIN SPORT-NBC Sports-Telemundo even if FOX-ESPN-Univision were to bid $300 million (or less).

    ESPN, Inc. has been waging this "psychological war" with college sports conferences for years, by playing on the fear of university presidents, athletic directors, and coaches with the threat of not covering a particular college sports league on SportsCenter, in order to convince the Top 5 college sports conferences to accept less than full value for their media rights and locking those leagues into long-term contracts.


    For the last time:

    ESPN, Inc. sees EPL as nothing more than college basketball played with the feet on weekend mornings and Monday afternoons.

    (You have showed no understanding of that concept despite repeated attempt to bang this concept into your head. That tells me you are absolutely clueless.)

    Furthermore, the team of ESPN programming executives (Scott Guglielmino, Brian Kweder, etc.) who dealt with U.S. rights to major soccer products have been reassigned as of April. They now spend at least 80% of their time on Global X and less than 20% of their time with soccer.

    The absolute threshold of pain for ESPN, Inc. with regards to U.S. rights to EPL is estimated to be around $90 million ($30 million/season.)

    Univision Deportes has a similar threshold of pain: around $60 million ($20 million/season) for a sublicense to 38 "1st pick" matches in Spanish.

    In order for FOX Sports Media Group to bid $300 million for U.S. rights to EPL for August 2013-May 2016, FOX Sports will need to come up with $150 million of its own money.

    Knowing that FOX Sports is spending only around $30 million on EPL for August 2010-May 2013, FOX Sports now knows that it will have to spend 5 times as much on EPL as it did in order to have any chance of retaining the U.S. rights to EPL.

    If you actually spend some effort in building a spreadsheet model or two and researching pay TV industry data (instead of sitting on your fat a-- and reading Big Soccer or Twitter all day), you should be able to convince yourself that FOX Soccer cannot be profitable if it had to spend $150 million on EPL over a period of 3 years instead of $30 million, $60 million, or $90 million.

    (Hint to get you started: at $0.25/subscriber/month and 40 million subs, FOX Soccer collects around $120 million in subscription fees each year. )

    ==

    This is turning into a very messy high stakes poker game, with dozens of people now taking sides (whether they are aware of it or not.)

    You are now part of this poker game. Whether you are just acting on your own or you have been engaged by either FOX or ESPN to do their dirty work, I don't know because I don't know you well enough.
     
  6. TJNash

    TJNash Member

    May 22, 2012
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Could you kindly identify these US based supporter group branches, so those of us here can provide them with our input? Surely, that can't be confidential information, can it?

    Unless you just made that up, too.
     
  7. bigtw64

    bigtw64 Member+

    Aug 16, 2003
    florida
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I like it.
    And what do you forsee in the future for Fox Soccer Plus? Having lost Serie A/Ligue 1, and the SPL being somewhat depleted, will they pick up any other Euro leagues or add more Rugby?
     
    corolla repped this.
  8. UEFAJason

    UEFAJason Member

    Jun 15, 2012
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I think the properties of FSP will roll within the Fox Sports rebranding of Speed and Fuel TV in addition to fortifying Fox Soccer with more content likely from the Championship, FA and League Cup matches. Though I would love for Fox Soccer to pick up Eredivisie because I don't see too many Dutch players outside the national team matches.

    In short, I think they will do away with the FSP standalone subscription model.
     
  9. corolla

    corolla Member

    Jan 8, 2008
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Before Olive gets on here and gets all negative (despite predicting that SPL and Ligue1 would never be on FS+), I'd like to see Eredivisie, Portugese Liga Sagres, and Russian Premier Leagues on FS+.
     
  10. huhe888

    huhe888 Red Card

    Oct 3, 2007
    FOX Soccer should have an "escape clause" in its deal with SPORTFIVE International to void the entire SPL TV deal now that the SPL will NOT have an Old Firm Derby for at least 1 season, if not 3 seasons (assuming that Rangers FC will have to grind its way back from the 4th flight: SFL 3rd Division.)

    FOX Soccer LLC paid Canal Plus Events S. A. only "$1" plus transmission cost plus a percentage of subscriber fees collected by FOXsoccer.tv & FOXsoccer2go.com for Ligue 1 in August 2010-May 2012. The handful of Ligue 1 matches that aired on FOX Soccer averaged 53,000 viewers, roughly equal to the dismal viewership of Serie A on FOX Soccer (54,000 viewers.)

    (Source: Associated Press sports writer Ronald Blum.)

    If the Eredivisie, Portuguese Liga Sacres, and Russian Premier League are willing to accept "$1" plus transmission cost plus a percentage of subscriber fees, then they are welcome to put themselves on FOX Soccer Plus and FOXsoccer2go.com

    In case you didn't read the above correctly:

    [​IMG]
     
  11. UEFAJason

    UEFAJason Member

    Jun 15, 2012
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I thought Sport TV Americas had rights to the Portuguese Liga, and it is only on Dish Network... unless I am missing something. I'd like to see it on DirecTV.

    Russia would be interesting, only because I am interested in watching how various players cope with playing in St. Petersburg where matchday temps are around 26 degrees.
     
  12. huhe888

    huhe888 Red Card

    Oct 3, 2007
    SPORTV Americas has the Portuguese League in Portuguese.

    ESPN3.com had the Portuguese League in English last season. Unless someone were to tell me otherwise, I will assume a rights fee of $1 plus transmission cost.
     
  13. Ed Ennui

    Ed Ennui Member

    Lazio
    United States
    Jul 18, 2006
    Yoknapatawpha County
    Club:
    SS Lazio Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Last year, the early Sunday EPL game was on Plus (unless Man U was playing).
     
  14. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your sources have been fricking golden to this point, too.
     
    TJNash and Emperor Adriano repped this.
  15. huhe888

    huhe888 Red Card

    Oct 3, 2007
    No Serie A on FOX Soccer or FOX Soccer Plus this season.

    Expecting EPL on Sundays at 8:25am ET to be on FOX Soccer this season, with FOX Soccer Plus taking rugby union on Sunday morning.

    Don't know yet whether FOX Soccer Plus will keep Scottish Premier League or exercise an escape clause to get out of its contract because Rangers FC will no longer be in the SPL for 2012-2013 (and likely 2013-2014).
     
  16. Redbullsnation2012

    May 26, 2010
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    FS+ needs programming, expect them to keep the SPL around even if it is a 1-team league...
     
  17. Jamooky

    Jamooky Member+

    Mar 24, 2006
    Cleveland, OH USA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe I've missed something, but what can we expect FSC to show on weekend afternoons, now?
     
  18. huhe888

    huhe888 Red Card

    Oct 3, 2007
    FOX Soccer got its wish for weekends in August 2012-May 2013: almost all EPL, all day, all night.

    Saturdays:

    9am ET - EPL Preview Show (tape)
    9:30am ET - Match Day (live from Pico Blvd sound stage in LA)
    9:53am ET - EPL match (live)
    12noon ET - Match Day
    12:23pm ET - EPL match (live)
    2:30pm ET - EPL match via tape-delay
    4;30pm ET - EPL match via tape-delay
    6:30pm ET - Filler (i.e. Premier League Archives or FA Archives)
    7pm ET - college soccer or USL if available, otherwise Sky Sports News (delayed from 5pm ET) followed by EPL match re-air at 8pm ET
    10pm ET - new soccer news program from Rogers Media in Toronto (shared with SPORTSNET World) starting September 1 (FOX Soccer Report from Winnipeg through August 31)
    11pm ET - EPL match re-air
    1am ET - soccer news program re-air
    2am ET - Sky Sports News (live)
    3am ET - EPL match re-air
    5am ET - soccer news program re-air

    Sundays:

    6am ET - soccer news program re-air
    7am ET - soccer news program re-air
    8am ET - Match Day or Filler (i.e. EPL Preview or EPL World)
    8:23am ET - EPL match (live)
    10:30am ET - Match Day
    10:53am ET - EPL match (live)
    1pm ET - Goals on Sunday (live from Pico Blvd sound stage in LA)
    2pm ET - EPL match via tape-delay (if available) + filler
    5pm ET - Sky Sports News (live)
    6pm ET - EPL match re-air
    8pm ET - EPL Review Show
    9pm ET - Documentary, reality show (or dirt cheap Canadian content)
    10pm ET - soccer news program from Toronto
    11pm ET - EPL match re-air
    1am ET - soccer news program re-air
    2am ET - Sky Sports News (live)
    3am ET - EPL match re-air
    5am ET - soccer news program re-air

    ==

    Plenty of dirt cheap Canadian content are being pitched by various producers in Toronto (and a certain pundit in Winnipeg) so there will be no shortage of shows that will be available at a rights fee of "$1" plus bartered advertising slots.
     
  19. Jamooky

    Jamooky Member+

    Mar 24, 2006
    Cleveland, OH USA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    haha - tell me more about this "dirt cheap Canadian content".

    Seriously - that would suck, though.
     
  20. huhe888

    huhe888 Red Card

    Oct 3, 2007
    FOX Soccer Plus might as well be re-branded "FOX Sports Plus", with overflow EPL matches (on Saturdays at 10am ET and Sundays due to UEFA Europa League participation), and a ton of Rugby Union.

    The deal FOX Soccer signed with SPORTFIVE International has an escape clause that can be exercised now that Rangers FC will NOT be part of the SPL for at least 2012-2013 if not longer (at least 3 seasons if Rangers FC were to start over in SFL3.)
     
  21. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They should just rename FSC to the BPL Channel.
     

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