That is correct, too. I was going to say the common denominator was that none of those leagues had any real money, and anyone in them who did lit out for more stable leagues at first opportunity. But, yeah, the days where you could put a team in some ramshackle facility and provide no worthwhile gameday experience and shame even soccer people into "supporting your local" are gone. The market is more fragmented and more sophisticated than that now, with too many more options. The idea that because it's grassroots and trying harder and all that, that you are honor-bound to support it or that it's more authentic or better is nonsense. The Cincinnati Saints got pushed aside by FC Cincinnati? Boo fricking hoo. They didn't have the ability to upgrade their experience. Those of us who were around (or actively working in it) in the 90s when teams were failing at nearly an 80% clip don't long for those days. Things are so much better now, and it's largely because of the PLS. (There have been other things that went into it, obviously.) Trying to do this with no money simply does not work anymore.
Do you think League 2 is viable or do you expect the U-23/summer college level to disappear entirely?
Peter Wilt's Open Soccer Alliance will fix that because of pro/rel. It only has 6 teams but PRO/REL people!!! Seriously, I wish some attempt would be made to streamline non-pro soccer. We need fewer leagues not more.
Kenn, you were actually my local sports broadcaster in Tallahassee back in the 90s as well I think the difference back then versus is now was that the A-League and others were the only option for "professional" soccer. You'd put up with football field markings and ramshackle leagues because it was the only option ... there weren't even European or Mexican league matches on cable. Now, besides have access to most European and South American leagues on television, we have easy access to high-quality soccer in purpose built stadiums. Within a one-hour drive from my current home, I have access to MLS, ULS Championship and League One games as well as a great NWSL team ... why would I drive further for a Maryland Bobcats game?
Awwwwwwwwww. I'll make you feel even older: I was there from June 1987 to February 1988. Right. The audience is more sophisticated and has been exposed to something better. Match that or get out.
USL League 2 (formerly the PDL)? Not the same. They're not paying players and worker's comp and payroll taxes and they have tiny staffs and play super-short seasons. They've been around for 30 years. Some have been very well-supported. Most have not. I don't think that level of play will go away, because the economic model is radically different from anyone who tries to say they are "professional."
I grew up in Tallahassee and was an undergrad at FSU during that period. Also, no denying it, we're old! I'm old enough to remember Soccer Made in Germany on PBS and having some of the original Rowdies put on a soccer clinic at my elementary school in Orlando
On a tangent, I used to deliver Ray Clemence's newspaper in the days when the resident England and Liverpool goalkeeper could only afford a modest, 3 bedroom, semi-detached (attached) house. The doors and windows have been updated since 1973. England and Liverpool defender Larry Lloyd used to live behind us and put my first ever bet on a horse. It came fourth
Why don't these clubs in wannabe pro leagues play at that level instead? I doubt the difference in level of play would discourage anyone who's already going to low-level games from buying tickets and the teams may actually be able to remain solvent.
============================= Been saying this for years- better , not more leagues !!! I get upset USSF just won't put an end to approving every Tom Dick & Harry who has an idea for a league If you want to get into soccer, why not invest or partner with an existing (especially lower division teams)? More investors into a team reduces the risk for the investors and should improve the team and its operations if done right. Everyone needs to stop being king of their league and instead look at what's best for soccer as a whole. Sadly, I don't see this happening I am ok with the state of our top 3 pro leagues (MLS, USL-C & USL-1) Some more work to keep the USL's stable and get over some stadium & expansion issues. But, I will still stay it over again. We need a large, regional D4 league It should be USL-2, NPSL & UPSL. or more properly, the best of all those teams. The season should be a little longer and roster places held for college kids who want to continue college. This should be an all comers league- players making a comeback, walk on's, players trying to get green card/work paperwork approved, kids who drop out from college. Make it a big net- hundreds of teams with a bit more flexibility on the rules. Should be a fit between college and pro. Any other state leagues would be below this, but not USSF regulated, but state regulated. This league plays in the US OPEN cup and provides the teams for those classic cup battles of Amatuers vs. the Pros. Some diamond in the rough players could be out there. Then by either scouting or tryouts, maybe some of these players move up. Some players never will move up and some may be playing just for the love of the game.
============== I almost went to this game until I found out it was at a large, junior college football stadium on a plastic field AND the stadium seats 11,000. Long Beach City College- home of the Vikings.
My newly revised fantasy US Soccer pyramid ! (changes all the time ) D1. MLS- get to 32 and please stop D2. USL-C. get your expansion and stadium issues addressed- get to 32 and hold D3. USL-1- Seems to be an area of growth, but get to 32 and hold. ----- That my friends would be 96 professional teams. It would be (I think) the greatest number of professional teams at one time we have ever had. With this, I simply ask for stability. I don't count MLS Next Pro- that should not have been given D3 status and I don't like the hybrid idea of independent teams in this league. Those teams should be in USL> The MLS Reserve league should be an absolute mirror of the D1 The main team plays Saturday and reserves right behind on Sunday in the same city-- That why players who didn't play Saturday could play Sunday. D4- Then as I posted elsewhere, D4 is a regional comglomeration of best USL-2 + NPSL + UPSL Maybe like 16 regions across the country And that's it !! Let simply and get stability across all levels. Give it time and if all teams in all leagues are doing well, then sure, with the size of the country, you can another DIVISION but not another league. Ok, venting over. Happy Holidays and maybe someday Santa will bring some soccer sanity.
I think MLS NP had to attain D3 to get USSF sanctioning and all the stuff that goes with that though it should really be D4. Assuming there's no expansion or exit fee its now the stepping stone between an idea of operating a soccer team and committing by paying an expansion fee to USL. Or in the case of Chattanooga FC the only way to operate a professional team given the Red Wolves have USL area rights. I don't really see NP competing with USL L1 but you never know. If they do get a decent number of independent teams they could always think about pro-rel. Wouldn't that be ironic?
Apparently there's a small update to the original report. Seems like NISA sent their PR guy to refute this. “We are still planning our 2025 slate and more than excited to see our independent professional clubs back on the pitch.” So...with 4 or 5 teams?
Noop. We had 103 this year (if you count the NISA, which was until recently a sanctioned league), 101 in 2023 and 97 in 2022. There should be 97 next year (sans the NISA). Back in 1998, there were 79 (67 of them at the D2 or D3 level). EDIT: And that's just the men, obviously. There are more pro women's teams now than ever as well.
Ego. And the fact that we are in a golden age for outdoor domestic league soccer, which makes people think if those folks can do it, they can, too. (Spoiler alert: they can't.) Not hard to find amateurs who can play. Hard to find them readily available any time other than between May 1 and around August 1, the window when they aren't in school.
If only they had some sort of standards you had to meet....like, I don't know, something like Standards for a Professional League....or Professional Standards for a League.....or something. They frigging DON'T approve everybody, you mook. We're having that discussion right now. Meet the standards, you get sanctioned. And these are the (new) Tom Dick & Harrys recently: The NASL (for a time, then they got tired of waivers for them) USL League One (met the standards) MLS Next Pro (met the standards) NISA (for a time, then they got tired of waivers for them) The others are.....? Did Palmer's Division 0 (or whatever the hell it was) get off the ground, much less get sanctioned? (It did not.) Who else? What other people have just shown up and got sanctioned? You protest too much. Use facts.
There pretty much is. They haven't done provisional for very long. The USL's Select League was provisionally DII in 1996 and would have been full DII in 1997 but the merger with what was left of the A-League created the larger A-League which was full DII. USL-C didn't stay provisional for long.
Here's what I could find on OSA's Pro status Open Soccer Alliance Makes Its Case — Protagonist Soccer