Said very well...I get the impression that the formation of the MLS was to be different than all the other pro leagues in the US. In the end not having money issues with players, but that is not the case. There are still the issues of money just with a little different twist. Most players are paid a small pitance. When veteran players are mass exiting on there own to go to Leagues abroad that is bad business for alot of reasons. It is also a symptom of the ills that plague the league. The league further harms itself when the league does not get any transfer money out of it like other clubs abroad do. Fans loose, revenues go down and MLS will die like a withering vine. As players come along more and more will go abroad and avoid the MLS. They will see where the money an status are. That would be unfortunate for American Soccer. Not being a big fan of Coach Arena... look at who is filling his rosters...players with foreign club experience...with a smattering of MLS only experience players... I think his comments in a recent news interview "while misinterpreted " about the league and the powers to be are perhaps an accurate assessment. MLS does need League administrators with better soccer backgrounds. I wonder how many have been former professional players or coaches? Maybe that is why the league is not moving forward. Expasion is not an indicator of league success. My hat is off to those players who have the desire and will to take a chance and go abroad without a contract at home not just for the money but to also continue to elevate themselves professionally and hopefully by that continued experience better prepare themselves to represent their country on the USMNT at some point.
A concern, but not as big as people are making out. The players who are leaving and will leave are the ones like Garcia, Barrett and West. Good enough to play in the middle leagues in Europe, but really not top quality or Nats material here. They will be in their mid or late 20's and will not be a worth a hefty pay raise here when younger talent can be purchased. MLS GM's will spend their money on 4 to 6 core players and then try to infuse younger guys. As we saw last year we have many younger players who can step up. We still are barely scratching the surface. With the implementation of a reserve system (huge, absolutely huge) the teams will have ready cover available. One of the biggest problems MLS has had have been call ups, injuries, and nowhere to test the young guys and have them learn their respecyive team's system. The reserve teams will improve the quality of play immensely while giving even more youngsters a chance to shine. The extra SI spot was also a very smart move. I think MLS officials have seen this, and since they can't cover everyone right now they have decided to protect the top guys and develop the bottom. Smart for their current situation. Look at West. Completely stagnant here in MLS. Good, not great, not worth spending the big $$$ on, but he has found a new life and career overseas. Even another Nats call up which would have probably not happened had he stayed here. Our best players will garner nice transfer fees for the league, and our young guys for the most part will stay here for 3 or 4 years to learn the ropes and get better. Our top quality youngsters will be sold for nice cash (Dempsey, GAM,Adu, Danny S, Gaven) Guys will also come back when they don't make it, or don't like it, want to make sure they are in the Nats mix or want to finish their careers here (Jovan, Gibbs, Clint, , Thornton, KK, Claudio, etc). Be honest for a second. If West, Garcia or Barrett weren't out of contract would anyone have paid a transfer fee for them. No way my friend. No way. Just a fact of life. Great buy for free, but for cash...sorry. Not worth the risk for middling type guys. Garber seems to be molding MLS in the image of what he knows best - the NFL. Salary Cap means keep your higher profile players while letting go your above average players where another team can sign them or you lose them overseas. Fill in the rest with overseas players (CAmerica/Carribean for the most part) and youngsters who will now get a chance to prove themselves instead of sitting behind guys like West, Barrett, etc. The reserve system will greatly improve this. This will improve our talent pool and level of play in MLS tremendously over the next 3 or 4 years. Do not underestimate this. It is an unbelieveably huge step forward. It's tough to lose some players who have produced to a certain degree and who we relate too, but having them go overseas and be successfull again only raises the profile of our game, and allows these guys a chance to get better, while being seen more easily by larger clubs. This isn't that bad. We are spreading our game and people's understanding of it. We are spreading our quality. We are spreading like a fungus, and we are gaining acceptance and respect brick, by brick, stone by stone just like we are here. Slowly, but surely. Have faith in our younger players. We are missing so many who can play and develop. Not all will want to leave or will be good enough to leave. The talent gap in the middle of each MLS squad won't be that big. It will be the top guys and how the young guys perform. Youth system, coach and a good GM will really show their worth. At this point in time turning guys over in the middele is not that bad. Keep our hot prospects tied up and make good money on them, and keep some recognizeable higher US profile guys around with the better contracts. An issue, not that huge of an issue. This can be overcome. Have faith in the young guys. We have so much youth and talent that doesn't get a chance.
Thank you. See, I can be good boy when I want to be, it's just when I get bored, and you have really silly posts go up that my Calvin-meter just goes through the roof.
TAKK has made an interesting well-thought out post ... but I happen to disagree with it on a number of major points, several of which I had mentioned in my previous posts. I do believe that MLS will have trouble both keeping the rank-n-file of its players, including the Brian West-Ramiro Corrales - Nick Garcia - Jose Burciaga types unless it significantly increases the salary level for the experienced US born players, which are opting to leave overseas after their original 3-4 year contract expires. I also disagree that MLS will have no trouble finding replacements. As history showed, whenever the traditional back-ups had to enter the game, its quality dropped rapidly. The third unaddressed question is of financial resources. If the league has been losing money, then increasing the expenditures will do nothing to improve its balance sheet. Finally, in order to gain from the transfer overseas, the league would have to have its players end up in the Big 4 leagues in Europe. Holland may be a beautiful destination to improve one's skills but, aside of 3 of its big clubs, the transfer fees will be slim, as clubs will simply wait out until a Yank is available for free. In order to really want someone, MLS will have to produce some outstanding quality performers and it's not exactly been known for that. With all due respect to Dave Sarachan, DaMarcus Beasley's value has been set by his performance for the Nats, aka Bruce Arena. And, as the USMNT roster solidifies with a gaggle of experienced Euro based pros, young US players will have to seek outside employment based upon their MLS career alone.
how many have really left? more have stayed than left. The key here is that many players don't want to make ~24-30k for 4 years. So they sign extensions and get a pay raise. Look at Taylor Twellman. Same for Damani Ralph. I think more have re-signed early than "waited it out". West leaves. Wingert steps up. Barret leaves. Dunivant isn't too bad. "dropped" is your opinion. Not sure I agree. Wanna try a specific example? Wouldn't spending more on non-superstar veterans mean increasing expenditure? Not sure I understand what you're getting at here at all. Beasley to Eindhoven. Convey for 7 figures to "Coca Cola" team. Convey was wanted before "producing for the nats". Look at the current list of "trialists". What "slim transfer fees" has MLS received in the last year?
Yes, you are. That's exactly what I am saying. I am also saying that's not a good thing for a league that's in the red. Well, it got nothing for West, Mathis and Bocanegra. It will get nothing for Garcia, Burciaga, Corrales and Meola. Now those are marginal players anyway but nothing is nothing.
We don't know the exact nature of those contracts and what may precipitate a transfer. And while it's true that many had extended, one must realize that a transfer request is impossible to refuse. How did Wingert replace West? Dunivant did replace Barrett but that was a year ago. And yes, MLS can replace half a dozen or so of departures but it can not replace too many more than that and raise the salaries of the remaining vets simultaneously and get quality foreign stars at once. Or at least do it well and on a budget.
so your saying there's a problem. but fixing it isn't possible? so 3 players left vs how many are staying? MLS gets to not spend beyond its means for these players. It gets to remain viable and on the path towards marginal profitability. I don't see a horrible problem here.
we have a pretty good idea about the nature of these contracts actually. and my point is, if these players want out, MLS gets a transfer fee. its system is working. my point was right now for every player going overseas, there's an upcoming player that in most cases can fill the role. when the exodus becomes more than the surge of young talent that's developing in the league, maybe then we can panic. i'm not worried. i don't think MLS is anywhere near the level of concern some here may think is necessary. i think the replacements for the current level of transfers out is fine. it's subjective. but i'm not hearing any convincing argument it's not there. of any of the players mentioned here having left, only one comes to my mind as not being "replaced" and that's Bocanegra. this offseason the only one I'm worried MLS can't replace is Donovan.
Garcia will not be joining Brann from Norway! Brann coach don't think he would strengthen the starting 11.
Good points all the way around, but I stress these... West - we wouldn't have gotten a transfer fee, signs a three year deal and it keeps younger guys on the bench. I like West, but he is not the type of player the league will make money off of, or who will hurt the league if we lose him. Clint - has not helped our transfer market. Wore out is welcome in LA, NY and Hannover now. I think MLS has learned from the Clint situation (BC and DMB), and would have taken the past offers. Boca - Boca didn't want an extension and the Fire didn't want to break up a championship team. That simple. The next Boca will demand a transfer fee because he has proven that a top MLS defender can steop right in to the P'ship and not miss a beat. This will not happen again. Quality of play - reserve teams. Again, do not underestimate this. Instead of being buried in practice, young guys and fringe guys can actaully play in a system, learn and stay in game shape. More fringe players can be brought in. Again, no way we get transfer fees for Garcia, West or Barrett. Not happening in any universe. Sorry. They also clog up the system and keep ypunger players off the pitch. We can replace these guys. No nameslike Schulte and Demerrit can get signed in the Cola league and we can't replace these guys...c'mon. I am as big of an MLS booster as there is, but don't overestimate our avergae players. It is great that our average guys can go overseas and make an impact somewhere. Says a lot. Transfer fees for Boca, West Barrett, Garcia and Clint. This isbefore Yanks were showing that MLS players could hack it in the bigger leagues mind you. Garcia - squat Barrett - squat West - squat These guys had to have agents search for opportunities. West under contract was turned down by T Dooley in thr German third division (Saarbrucken) and another team because he wasn't "worth" a transfer fee in their opinion. Boca - now he could be worth 2 mill lets say, Clint was what 1.2 to Munich 3 years ago, not sure... Now, Danny S, Gaven, Adu, Dempsey and GAM. Care to think what they will make the league. Think the league won't sell them now. A market is being created by guys like Bake, Boca, TH and DMB. In the next 3 to 4 years is it out of the realm of possibility that these guys could net MLS anywhere from 12 mill to 25 mill? Good business. Don't forget that not all players want to leave. They want leverage. I never took the Armas stories serious and he signed back here. Same with Kerry Z. He is 30, has a family, worth the risk to see if he goes by MLS officials. In KC I'm sure the priorities are Jose B, Arnaud and KZ. Can't keep them all so Garcia is the logical guy to take a big chance with. Many youngsters also see the playing time advantage here along with the 18 year old FIFA rule. MLS will not lose out on future transfers of their young stars (market is being developed...finally) and they will keep a solid core for each team. The extra SI and reserve team will definitely make up for guys leaving. Do not underestimate the inportance of playing in a system and having more options. Do not underestimate how many diamonds in the rough are found out there because they didn't even have the chance to compete. If we see each team losing a Garcia type guys every transfer window then there is an issue. That is not happening, and I can't see it happening for a while. There are way too many connections Euro leagues have in Africa, SA and smaller Euro leagues that way trump ours. We are still just starting. Let's face it...are we that surprised about Garcia not cuttuing it? We shouldn't be. Remember, as a foreigner he shouldn't just be as good or a little better than the local Scandanavians...he has to be clearly better. Still have a ways to go. Breathe easy. Breathe easy. BTW - As a Metro fan there isn't one Metro fan I know who wants Cletus back. Enough said there. We have hyped him and our boy BC way too much. I root for them both, but reality has this way of creeping into my thoughts about them when I watch them play. Sorry, no RWB glasses here. Consistency on the field and constant production means more to me. Nothing I have ever seen from both. Just flashes. That's it. The deluge ain't happening.
Then why isn't he? And why does he have to be claerly better then "local scandinavians" as you call it?
One - Because he isn't according to their coach. Never have been that impressed with him either. Two - Coaches go after foreigners because local talent isn't cutting it fo them anymore. In some leagues there are limited spots for none EU players, so they look to these players as having to make a big impact, not just fit in. Why, their spots are limited of course, and they usually come with a pedigree and cost more. Can't waste that. When spots aren't limited there isn't a coach in the world I know who will not take local talent they are familiar with if the foreigner is not a step above. Why? What purpose does it serve if the foreginer is not exceptional and you can get a local to fill the ranks? The expectations a fan has for an import always seems higher, so if he isn't a clear improvement the local will bea safe and popular bet.
Guess the mass exodus that got some worried ain't happening. BTW - Forgot to add this for the previous post. Garcia wasn't clearly better in the coaches opinion and there was no transfer fee involved. That says a lot because he would have been a cheap risk. Let's hope Nick just played terribly and his other trials go better. Not holding my breath though. After all is said and done KC could easily have all of their players back unless a salary decision forces one of them to another team in MLS. No mass exodus. In two years the reserve system will take the whole league up another notch and you will see more mid level players told to go to Europe and give it a shot. We have younger guys ready and we just can't afford you.
A) The transfer window hasn't even opened yet, so all we had so far were the out-of-contract players. B) Garcia went the correct route, trying out with a decent Norwegian club, who's a Royal League participant. He can always drop to a lower echelon like B-liga 2 and still make a lot more than he did in MLS.
Absolutely, but the key is out of contract. I hear Rotterdam was mor eopposed to the MLS tarnsfer fee rather than Clint's salary. As I just wrote in that thread I think the transfer fees MLS is asking will keep guys here under contract. MLS is right (just like with DMB) for wanting a good price for their better young players while TD's overseas still probably aren't convince Yanks are worth it. Will take a few more years of proving it. The only guys I know who got fees were Bake (proven), TH (dirt cheap by Euro standards), BC (work in progress) and DMB (good resume for a young guy). All others are frees I believe. Correct if I am wrong because I think that subject would make an interesting thread. MLS is probably better served holding Dempsey for 2 years instead of selling him for under what they want. If he improves and becomes a Nats regular and someone has to have him...they will pay. That simple. IMO I think CD is better off served with another year here. The middle of the road guys who would eat up too much MLS cap, but who aren't stars, are th eones you will see moving. When the reserves kick in and younger players are more ready to step right in you will see more of these guys go. Just IMO of course. Window isn't open, but I'm not sure I expect much. Wouldn't MLS want to keep GAM in Dallas after the Adu screwing, and the new stadium opening, unless a fee was huge? WHo else under contract is truely ready, or who is worth a solid transfer fee. TT...sure he can play overseas, but will he be worth the fee to somoene? Just don't see that many prospects under contract who will go. Mainly becuase fees aren't met, not because teams don't want them. Again, as a businessman I agree with MLS here. Many of us may not like it, but kudos to them. Meet my price and I sell, otherwise thanks but no. Remember any MLS player who desperately wants to go overseas does not have to sign the extension, like many who have interest have. Many can refuse MLS and go on their own. Quite a few have. This is not MLS's issue if you want to see a player go overseas. BTW - not saying that's how you feel, just want to cut out the usual, have to go overseas to be worth anything crew in advance
there's quite a handful "worth" a transfer fee, but few in the "million" category. Gaven, Dempsey, Marshall, Adu, Szetela, E Johnson, Esky all worth 6-7 figures IMO. More are worth some fee: Buddle, Ching, Twellman, Ralph, Grabavoy, Mastroeni, Albright, Pope (dropping by the minute), and several others. Not not to mention more of the SI/TIs like Ralph. I've talked about putting together a list of transfer fee players out of MLS but haven't started the thread. There aren't that many, especially the Yanks. Hahnemann and Hejduk I'm pretty sure of. Not sure about DiGi. Eddie Lewis? I have most of the info archived, but it'll take some time to get the whole list. Can search by name pretty easy. Don't think there were many, if any, 6-7 figure fees paid until Howard. I'm pretty sure Joe-Max was out-of-contract. I know Sanneh, Mathis, Bocanegra, West, Barrett were all free transfers.
IMO, MLS will be better served in going either the sell-through or a bonus route by allowing the transfer to the lower-tier clubs with subsequent compensation if the player achieves certain incentives (PT, scoring, ratings) or if he is transfered to a bigger club. After all, someone like Clint Dempsey may or may not be worth millions even at his prime.
Would make a great thread (transfer fees). This is why Jan is my new favourite time of year (outside of the season) because we get to see just what other TD's think. All the speculating in the world will mean nothing until that window opens. Again, not sure I see much movement at all with guys under MLS contract. We will see of course. Would be a pleasant surprise to see teams ponying up for guys like TT. Still think we are more likely to see more movement among MLS players who aren't "hot young prospects" after 2006 rather than now. Little more than a mth away. How many rumors until then? Should be fun....let's hope.