NFHS rules questionnaire

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Bubba Atlanta, Nov 23, 2014.

  1. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    What does Question 18 mean?
     
  2. Billy South Philly

    Jan 28, 2013
    Newtown Square, PA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    An link to that particular question would be nice.
     
  3. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    It's an opinion survey on some contemplated rule changes.
    I confess I'm being lazy and have not gone back to the current rule to puzzle out what they're talking about. So anyway, what is "not kicked as specified?"
     
  4. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

    May 24, 2012
    Presumably "as specified" means kicked and moves forward.
     
  5. malackym

    malackym Member

    Feb 9, 2011
    Warren Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All I know, is that any question on a rule change that would bring High School more in line with USSF, I answered "Yes". I remember rereading #18 three or four times, and thinking 'whatever???' I voted no on that one thinking if they didn't take the kick correctly, backward??? , they don't get a retry.

    Mark.
     
  6. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    That was my thinking - but I didn't want to vote the wrong way on #18, not understanding what the heck it meant. (How the heck would you kick backward and score a goal? Yeah yeah, the strong wind scenario ...)
     
  7. nonya

    nonya Member

    Mar 2, 2006
    The question should read:

    In the taking of a PK. If the ball is kicked not prescribed in the rules and a goal is not scored do you rekick?

    Example: Kid runs up to take the PK and does a stutter step move that is obvious. You allow him to continue to kick and he misses, does he get to rekick?
     
  8. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Where's the one that reads "Shall it henceforth be the policy of NFHS that all matches shall be played under auspices of LOTG?"

    A guy can dream...

    The questions on timeouts I had to sort of peek through my fingers at. Sheesh. "To make soccer more like other HS sports," indeed.
     
  9. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Yeah, I'm probably going to sound too defensive here, but my term on the committee expired a couple of years ago. I'll also say that the "double dual" system is only in the book to placate the two states that use it and you have my sympathy if you live in one of those states.

    IFAB Laws of the Game did not come down from Mt. Sinai on stone tablets. They started out as a verbally agreed to set of common rules, established in a pub by a bunch of college guys, so they wouldn't have to negotiate the rules before every game. Yes, NFHS rules differ from LOTG. Big whoop. NCAA football rules are different than NFL rules, NCAA basketball rules are different than those used by the NBA, NCAA baseball rules are different than what MLB uses and NFHS rules are different than all of them. Soccer is just like every other sport. Nobody cares, other than some referees. In my other sport, track & field, there are four rule books (international rules are slightly different than national rules, besides NCAA and NFHS) and I do meets under all four rule books every year. Life and the competition goes on.

    Even if high schools strictly used LOTG, we would still have to deal with rules of competition that spell out how to handle a number of things for club soccer that NFHS (and NCAA) rules cover at present. Do you want some things done one way in some leagues and a different way in others? That's the way it is under LOTG. One state says that they use LOTG for high school, except for......and then except for this, and except for that.... In my state, there is a state high school sports and activities association rule that NFHS rules will be used for all high school contests. Any change in that would require a vote by superintendents and principals from across the state.

    Even if you disagree with my opinion about whether differences between rule books are tolerable, there is zero chance that NFHS will begin using LOTG instead. There really is no pressure on NFHS or the state high school associations to change from the people who count, namely high school superintendents and principals.
     
    camconcay, Bubba Atlanta, roby and 2 others repped this.
  10. Baka_Shinpan

    Baka_Shinpan Member

    Mar 28, 2011
    Between the posts
    Club:
    Vegalta Sendai
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    @Law5 - I was noodling on this earlier while out for a run and was wondering what is the cost to the schools or state associations / leagues for NFHS soccer?

    Does anyone know?

    It seems to me that the way to effect change at the high school level is to address it at the cost level - something that every school system superintendent and school AD can understand. If you can come in with a value proposition that shows that you are paying NFHS for something that US Soccer already provides (uniform nationwide rules (with flexibility for localized rules of competition), insurance coverage, and referee certification / training) then you have a case to be made.

    I honestly don't know if there is anything there - perhaps when you factor in other administrative infrastructure, there are no cost savings, but figured I would put this out there.
     
  11. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    First of all, school districts do little or no cost accounting, particularly about ancillary activities, like sports. (I served eight years on our school board, a district with five high schools.) So the schools' knowledge of the cost of their sports is pretty much limited to saying "that's a lot of money!" YMMV.

    Second, pay to play is pretty widespread these days, at least around here. Most school districts seem to think that means that they don't need to worry too much about the overall cost of sports, because the parents are paying for it. They aren't really, but that how administrators think and 'perception is reality.'

    Third, roughly speaking, officials are about 1/3 of the total cost (before factoring in pay to play fees and gate receipts) of sports. Coaches are about 40% and the rest is uniforms, equipment and the all important bus transportation expense. The athletic director's salary, heat, lights, insurance, etc. is never allocated to sports, much less individual sports. (Frankly, the coaches are the ones who are not making much money in this system, at least not on a per hour basis.)

    In my experience, at the national, state and local level, the only time that cost enters into rule discussions is fields and uniforms. NFHS minimum field dimensions are actually larger than IFAB anyway, but discussions about having a minimum setback generates cries about how many schools would be unable to play if they had to find a larger venue. Uniform costs are always raised when any change is made by NFHS. While I'm not a big supporter of the detailed uniform requirements, NFHS always allows an extended phase in period on the changes and panic stricken schools sometimes get reminded that uniforms are a wear item, i.e. they do wear out and in a relatively short time frame. Do you really want to wear the same pair of socks that two other players wore before you and which now have thumb size holes in them? I thought not.

    I don't see that differences over, say, when the restart is a drop ball v. IFK, as being a cost issue.
     
  12. espola

    espola Member+

    Feb 12, 2006
    The local high school does not charge to have the lights turned on for night games, but the rumor is that they will charge a fee to turn on the scoreboard for the first time this year.
     
  13. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    well, my guess is that you might have to pay someone to operate the scoreboard...but I could be wrong
     

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