NFHS 2024-2025 Rules

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Kit, Mar 1, 2024.

  1. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    I don't think it's fair to tar everyone doing high school games like that. Yes, you had a partner who shouldn't be doing these games and someone you don't want to work with anymore. But "no generalization is worth a damn, including this one." If you're going to connect the dots, you have to have more than one dot.
     
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  2. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    I think it’s quite clear that metros rants are directed at referees who are exclusively doing high school, he is not “tarring everyone who does high school”. And as I said before, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the demographic of people who are usually officiating high school sports matches that start on weekday afternoons, and especially EXCLUSIVELY refereeing only these matches, are extremely stubborn, hardheaded, and unwilling to listen to people correcting them or telling them that they are wrong, and unwilling to change. These people usually act this way in their real lives, so it’s no surprise that it carries over to their officiating
     
  3. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    As I stated previously, everyone's experience is different. Yours apparently is more positive on this topic.

    Why should I doubt that folks here are having these unfriendly encounters with fans in the "Bad Stories" thread during and after HS games when I'm not? Just because I'm not having those issues, it does not mean the regular posters are horrible officials or exaggerating this or making up their experiences. I can only speak for my area like they are for theirs and appreciate reading about people's experiences outside of my state.

    Almost 1.5 years (which is about 100 games) is more than a sufficient sample size for me to express that HS referees (mostly non-USSF guys) hold onto myths for many years and are inflexible to the way they do things compared to my many years of officiating USSF sanctioned matches.

    I've never had a HS partner comment, "I think I got that foul call wrong....how did you see it?" It just doesn't happen.
     
  4. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    Hmm nice to see a glimmer of hope.
     
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  5. Barciur

    Barciur Member+

    Apr 25, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    It's definitely totally dependent on where you are. For example, in my chapter, about 80% of the folks are USSF referees as well. However, at 31, I am the fourth youngest in the chapter. Our average age if 65. So, totally different demographic than what Law5 was describing I believe with majority of his officials being younger. In a neighboring chapter, there is a lot of folks who only do HS and not USSF. So in the same state, the county next to us has a different make up. We have people coming from this other county in order to work games for us because they like our environment better. So, the moral of this is definitely YMMV.
     
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  6. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I clearly screwed up a passive offside call the other day and the home team Coach at the half blasted me and I apologized to him and told him that I made a mistake. My referee partner then tells me, never admit to a Coach when you are wrong...smh
     
  7. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    #182 MetroFever, Oct 2, 2024 at 11:37 AM
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2024 at 11:46 AM
    It’s difficult to work a dual system with differing personalities.

    I can do a wonderful pre-game for a USSF sanctioned match so that my AR’s are on the same page as me so that we’re consistent with the way the match is called so that they’re not waving for a “soft” foul late in the game. In high school pre-games, egos get in the way since everyone has a whistle.

    Late in the game in my match yesterday, the trail referee is yelling 60 yards away at the goalkeeper “Let’s go…6 second rule!”. If that’s not undermining, then I don’t know what is. We were wearing comms and I told him that we were allowing the same 10 seconds that we were in the first half, and the winning team is under no obligation to hurry their punt. I can say he was not happy with that response.
     
  8. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    So metro are you now just making a game out of antagonizing these archaic, stubborn, unwilling to be corrected, egotistical high school refs in each match? I think it’s funny if you do. But if I was in your shoes, I would just stop trying to change them and stop getting upset when they pull their crap, and talk to them as little as possible. If they undermine you, just let it go. Report it to the assignor if you want. But this is clearly going to be a thing in almost every HS game you’re doing. Why subject yourself to that stress. Just let it go
     
  9. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ok well let's step back on this a bit: if the trail referee is standing in front of the losing team bench and he is getting an earful from their Coach, I would have absolutely no problem with addressing the possible issue of time-wasting even if you are the lead official. It's all about getting out of there in one piece, with minimal conflict and you are a team.
     
  10. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    He was on the fan-side in the second half, not the coaches side. There was no time-wasting. They were taking the same time putting the ball in play that they took when the match was tied in the first half.
     
  11. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    31 is the fourth youngest? I did a varsity girls game this year with a high school senior as AR2. I think he was younger than some of the players. And he did a very professional job. I'd be happy to work with him again.

    That leaves me with two points. 1. being cranky with partners et al. is not necessarily related to age, allowing that younger officials may still be too new to assert themselves, correctly or incorrectly, but experience trumps age. 2. the profile of the referee association membership varies around the country and any statement that 'all referees are....' is probably right in some places and wrong in others.
     
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  12. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Generally, if I'm in your shoes in that situation, without screaming out loud for all to hear, but for those involved, just the 'let's move it keeper' on each occassion. Doesn't give a countdown, doesn't say what you will do, but its enough for them to move and for some on the other team to hear that you/us are aware that the one team may be time wasting.

    And then, if you need to sanction later, you have the backup that they had been warned.
     
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  13. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    To all you guys, this isn’t soccer but fits the sport wide NFHS ref attitude problem we are discussing. Earlier this year, I recruited a dad in his late 40s of a U12 player to become a ref for water polo. He was running the time clock for a youth club game we were doing (think equivalent of USSF youth games). He has been taking refereeing very seriously wanting to do very well, learn, study, etc. He has done a lot of youth club games and is enjoying it

    I just received this text from him this morning
    upload_2024-10-2_12-47-33.png
     
  14. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    There was no time wasting. Both referees established a bar for both goalies that would be acceptable at any of the levels we all officiate in.

    You don't lower the bar because one team is losing.
     
  15. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Where in Pennsylvania are you?
     
  16. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    It’s funny you say this because it’s actually the complete opposite. DSC soccer refereeing is the most egotistical refereeing method of any sport. Most other sports have used referees with multiple whistles for decades and have decided that it’s the best thing, even when referees have competing personalities or even different rule interpretations, and accept that there are certain areas of the field that will be no man's land with calls, and say that all referees in the game are equal in responsibility. It’s soccer DSC that has decided that only one ref is "good enough" to be the one with the final say on fouls and the others are just there to “assist” him.

    The fact that we consider every referee being equal in responsibility with a whistle to mean that they get a "big ego" from carrying one is a pretty sad state of affairs.
     
  17. Barciur

    Barciur Member+

    Apr 25, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    Yes. Couple points for that. Pennsylvania does not allow kids that have not graduated and are under 18 (both crucial points) to officiate HS games. They recently made a new program called "junior official" where they allow 16 and 17 year olds to referee middle school games. So that's one thing.

    Two, many of our games start at 4pm. In fact, at least half of our varsity games are played at 4. That means majority of the population cannot get out of work for them, so they do not bother working high school. That has changed a bit with more people having remote work, flexible working hours etc., but it is still a lot of us who are teachers, then some self employed and a whole lot of retirees or people close to it.

    Third, I have talked to younger people who said they would never do HS because they have the system - the two man and the three whistle system. We do all of our HS games here in our chapter as a two man, including all varsity games. Then when we move to play-offs, we do three whistle, officially knows as the "double dual". People are turned off by that and do not want to work it.

    That's my 7th grade 5 paragraph essay's body about why younger people do not want to referee high school. :)
     
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  18. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    It's been well documented here about the trials at the higher levels that a dual-system doesn't work. It's difficult to compare soccer to other sports for so many reasons.

    At the high-school level, it's possible to have a successful match, if you have two guys who see the game the same way. On Saturday morning, my match was with an attorney who was a former state referee. If there's anybody who should have an ego, it would be him.

    Instead, it was probably the best officiated dual-system match I've been a part of this year, when you consider the talent on the field. The coaches weren't frustrated that two guys had different bars for a foul. We had similar man management approaches and we had fans from both teams being complimentary.

    As I mentioned before, I had that guy two days ago shouting "Goalie, 6 seconds" from 60 yards away even though we established long ago that we're ok with the 10 seconds since the opening save and has a long history of inserting his ego in a negative light. The coaches and fans are not stupid and see the disconnect from a mile away. It's the only match this year not a single soul had anything positive to say after the game.
     
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  19. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Yea...I did a bunch of U-18 matches with an attorney who was an Assistant DA. From the 1st match it was like we were one. That we both had Italian roots made it easy recognizing hand signals! :thumbsup:
     
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