Next manager after Poch

You see whatever USSF is doing the opposite is the correct thing they should be doing.

 

Marsch has done alot for Canada in terms of building up their program, development system, etc which is something they really value and also need for where they are as a soccer country. He’s also very aggressive with dual national recruiting. But he’s definitely not as good as a coach as Pochettino.

Now one of the interesting things is alot of the discussion about Pochettino coming back seems to indicate he’d be more involved on the developmental side which would be interesting. But I don’t think he’s ever going to someone who aggressively recruits dual nationals. His mentality on that is what it is.

 

What has he done in that regard?

 

I got to find some of the reporting but apparently this is why they extended him pre World Cup because they found this work valuable.

 

I've seen him say things in press conferences and the such, but when I think of someone program building, there's a lot to that and I don't really know that Marsch should get all that much credit for some comments and rah rah.

When I think of program building, I think of someone setting up the infrastructure to grow and develop past when they are gone, both in things like processes and human infrastructure but also brand.

Maybe he's doing all that, but I haven't seen it.

But I also don't think what he's doing is anything all that useful for where the US is and I don't know what Marsch brings to the table that a bunch of other people couldn't.

I'm sure he interacts with the youth coaches more than Pochettino does and perhaps does more ambassador work with other parts of the organization, just like Berhalter did. That has value, but I you've got to factor what he's bringing to the table. So a lot of this is just me being unimpressed with his coaching.

I mean, I guess, he could bring the Red Bull press everywhere. That's not bad.

 

How much is ever any manager? He was the manger and he got them to the knockout round. Bosnia was a common opponent; Canada tied them 1-1 but was the better side and Bosnia had 2 goal line clearance.

It is funny reading some the narrative on BS about Canada's play by folks who clearly did not watch their matches.

 

Sounds reasonable but I suspect most Canadians will grade him much higher than that. My Canadian friends certainly all grade Jesse an A.

 

The three hosts performed the same at the WC. Round of 16, which reflects the talent. The coach matters little until the talent improves.

just keep Marsch away from the US. He will not improve us and he will increase our buffoonery.

 

Was I the only one who saw Poch kick the crap out of a trash can / water jug during the Belgium game? Any doubts about him not caring were vaporized at that moment.

As for duals we are to the place now where we only need ones that are upgrades. He has indicated he wants them to want to play for the US and not be mercenaries. I agree with that and so he has definitely tried to get Banks but wants him to want to be here and go through the process. No more auto picks. Also with four years instead of two I think he'll treat young players very differently and try and coach them up. He definitely knows where we need upgrades.

 

We have to remember that winning the round of 16 puts you in the top 8. We could move up from 16 to 14 or 10 but still get bounced out of the Round of 16.
Jumping from 16 to 8 is MASSIVE.
We have to consistently knock out at least one of Argentina, France, England, Portugal, Spain, Germany, Brazil, Netherlands. Until we can consistently do that, Round of 16 will be our exit.
Tournaments are not leagues where you can move up 1 or 2 spots a season. It's massive jumps or drops based off the play of 1 game.
We started the tournament ranked 16th by FIFA. So worst case scenario is we finish the tournament where FIFA ranked us. Most likely, we will finish better than our FIFA ranking. So how exactly is that not improvement? Just because it's not "enough" of an improvement does not mean it's not improvement.

 

But we didn’t have to beat any of those teams. We had to beat Belgium, who is a step below. And we didn’t. We didn’t even come close. No one is saying Poch should make us a Top 8 team. We’re saying he has the best US player pool in our history, was playing at home, and was playing an opponent with only a moderate talent advantage — and whiffed big time.

 

We nearly always make the R16. We made it again, but no further. We did not materially improve.

I agree the tournament format is tyrannical compared to league soccer, but that’s the world. So the only meaningful improvement is being top 8 in the tournament. No one cares if we’re 14 instead of 16.

 

Bare minimum is we need to knock out one of those teams I mentioned. Belgium is also the only team to have scored on Spain. So, to say they only have "moderately" more talent than us seems a tad ridiculous. They did more offensively than the loaded France team.

 

Well, doesn't that imply we shouldn't measure improvement based off knock out tournaments?

 

We looked a hell of a lot better doing it. Your analysis is reductive at best.

We had as many multi-goal wins at this WC than at our entire previous WC history. And two of those were in 1930 and one was in 2002.

We did not beat a high profile team. Like England in 1950 or Portugal in 2002, and we flamed out vs the best team we did play. And the format/seeding/home field helped us some.

But I think a longer run was earned. But I would not guarantee the full cycle. We need better results in NL, Gold Cup, and Copa.

If he cannot win the things Berhalter was winning, and he has not, he should go.

 

No. It’s the only way to measure it. Everything else is just feelings.

The best thing about sports is how clear it is. Do or do not.

 

Belgium were ranked 9th before the World Cup, now 8th.

 

Height or how handsome players are? Maybe how cute their spouses are?

 

I agree but as long as Poch gets the team out of a Copa America group I think he’ll get a pass on regional results. Job security is probably a big reason he’d stay, although to be honest that would be like the coaching equivalent of one of our players choosing MLS over a top five league in Europe when he still has prime years ahead of him.

 

How exactly is it the "only" way to measure it?
WE won 3 games, locked up the group in the first 2 games, and scored 11 goals. Those are facts not in dispute. Are you arguing those are not improvements over past performances? Yes they are or No they are not. Anything added to Y or N is completely subjective, not factual, and based on emotions of "should".
My opinion is we improved but not as much as I would have hoped. My other opinion is if people ignore the facts of the tournament to say we didn't improve than they're just being completely emotional.

 

How about wins and losses? 3 wins and 2 losses. When have we ever done that before?

 

So who will improve US? Did Berhalter? Arena II?

What exactly is the difference between Jesse's playing style and Poch's?

 

Yes, international play is very much small sample size theater, even over a cycle. I think all results need context but to exclude all results except a single game, regardless of importance, runs a massive risk of small sample size theater.

And people make bad decisions on that.

Summing up the Pochettino era solely on the Belgium game is discarding valuable data. I think even looking at the sum total of data allows for really many different views on Pochettino, but ignoring the positives completely for a game in which the players clearly were off is not going to be accurately representative of the job he's done.

For me, I am not wholly excited about a rehire.

I don't like anyone over six years, though that's better than eight. I don't love the very real possibility that he leaves us with very little time to prepare for 2030 if he bolts, much like he was left with little time.

And I would be very much asking about the defensive breakdowns that consistently occurred across his tenure, why they occurred, what might he have done differently and what would be his plan to fix them.

But to pretend he didn't a) come into a difficult situation with little real time with the players and b) didn't make noticeable progress in certain areas versus prior World Cup runs is, I think, incorrect and unfair.

Our offensive talent was the best its been, for sure, but the offense was materially better. We controlled and dominated non-elite teams -- some of whom performed very well against other elite teams -- and cruised through the group. That is not nothing.

 

And I think going forward with the expanded format it's going to be hard measuring qualifying performance against other eras since there won't be as much urgency since a lot more teams are going to get in. When it was only 3 teams that qualified every game mattered. That will not be the case going forward.