Alert: Next decades Netherlands will be the new Hungary of Europe. Once great, but slipped into mediocrity.

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Sep 3, 2012.

?

Will the Netherlands be the new Hungary of Europe? Once great, but slipped into mediocrity?

  1. That's an understatement. It is going to be far worse.

    12 vote(s)
    10.9%

  2. I agree, we will slip into severe mediocrity. Hungary sounds about right.

    6 vote(s)
    5.5%

  3. No, not really, we will be the new Belgium, that so now and then will produce a Hazard through luck.

    23 vote(s)
    20.9%

  4. No, football is a cyclical thing, in a few years we will be as strong as always.

    51 vote(s)
    46.4%

  5. What a ridiculous Poll. Netherlands will even improve over time and finally win the WC.

    18 vote(s)
    16.4%
Page 39 of 68
  1. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #951 DRB300, Jul 16, 2014
  2. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #952 Brilliant Dutch, Jul 16, 2014
  3. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    #953 Blondo, Jul 16, 2014
    Do you feel that Holland is now stronger than ever before ... this squad is better than those of the 70s and 90s?
    Holland has achieved its highest Elo score ever ... who am I to doubt Elo scores.

    "We moeten ons niet laten leiden door de uitslag, dat zou scorebordjournalistiek zijn."

    PS based on the all-time highest ratings, you'd also have to admit that the current German team is the best ever ... having recently edged out Hungary 1954.
     
  4. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #954 DRB300, Jul 16, 2014

    No that would be laughable. Netherlands is player quality wise pretty damn poor now. What helped us is to drop the plan when reality kicked us in the face. Play less ambitious football if the players for that ideal do not exists. From that you can still construct an almost unbeatable team a la Greece 2004 who had a ridiculous hard path to win the Euro. So in the end that can still cook a team that might be more resilient and hard to crack than the excellent teams in the past like Netherlands 1998 for example. Netherlands maximized what is possible from collectivism and discipline.

    What blows hot air in those Elo stats is Brazil's sudden implosion. Germany and Netherlands both profited from that. They completely lost the plot vs a German side that struggled vs Algeria and Ghana. Brazil forgot to maintain any kind of organisation at the back and then there was also nobody who corrected others to fly in formation again. It was a training exercise for Germany and not realistic when everybody knows what to do and follows the agreements made before the game. Germany profited from chaos and Netherlands could have easily have won with bigger numbers also if they were not invested and conditioned to play a more defensive style. The old Holland teams might have done something similar as Germany did.

    I also think Netherlands would have won from this Germany. Just a feeling. How they gave 2 or 3 top chances to Argentina. Van Gaal vs Low. We did not deserve to play the final mind you. We still mess with the penalty and country's that do not treat it with care and respect get burned over and over again. Going into a shootout with a keeper that never stopped one is just beyond stupid and plain amateurism. Finals are not for amateurs.
     
  5. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #955 Orange14, Jul 17, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2014
    Seriously, you need to let this one go. There were several greater tactical errors in the Argentina match than this one. Over defensing an under performing Messi, starting an unfit striker, not going to a 3 man strike force contributed more to the outcome than Cillessen's presence on the field. There is also the fact that two of the Dutch players told van Gaal they didn't want to take a penalty (not clear if it was just they didn't want to be first, not sure here) and weak penalties from Vlaar and Sneijder. In addition, I highly doubt that Krul could have stopped any of the Argentine penalties and his performance in the CR match was equally a result of over tired CR players who had gone 120 minutes in their previous match than his ability as a penalty stopper (which statistically as I read it only 10%).

    EDIT: I meant this in a friendly way.:)
     
  6. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #956 Brilliant Dutch, Jul 17, 2014
    Oranje back in FIFA ranking's 3rd spot where they belong:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #957 PuckVanHeel, Jul 17, 2014
    Another error was starting Nigel de Jong. OK to use him as sub when necessary but to let him start was wrong. With Clasie in the team it did not collapse, the control even improved a bit. And that De Jong did not play the Brazil game either showed what type of gamble it was... I think it was a mistake, esp. considering what happened after he left the field.
     
    Orange14 repped this.
  8. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #958 Orange14, Jul 17, 2014
    Yes, I should have also mentioned that as well. It's funny and yet sad that for all of van Gaal's wonderful tactical maneuvers prior to and during the WC the one match that he fell short was the one that maybe counted the most: the semifinal. I'm sure that we will continue to debate this one for some time to come.
     
  9. onzie77

    onzie77 Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    May 18, 2012
    miami
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #959 onzie77, Jul 17, 2014
    i felt we should have kept the game plan from costa rica and dominate possession because if it was not for all the offside calls, and goalie plus hitting the post we could have easily beat costa rica 6-1. so yeah you have to take risks to go for the win, like germany did if not you risk the unsatisfactory penalty kicks which means you tied but still lost
     
  10. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    #960 Belgian guy, Jul 27, 2014
    Germany, Holland and Belgium at 1, 3 and 5 with France closing out the top ten. Western Europe is where it's at!
     
  11. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #961 windycity, Jul 27, 2014
    Lol @ Switzerland at 9
     
  12. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #962 DRB300, Aug 3, 2014
  13. Antario2

    Antario2 Member

    Jan 29, 2012
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    #963 Antario2, Aug 3, 2014
  14. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #964 Orange14, Aug 3, 2014
    Hesse is a good writer who I've been following for lots of years over at ESPN FC. I think he glossed over one point about Dortmund. It was really a financial catastrophe that almost got them tossed out of the Bundesliga and not one about changing how they operate.

    My main point is whether there are very good Dutch talents who slip through the cracks and are never identified. Sure all the teams in the Eredivisie my not have as large youth development programs as Ajax and Feyenoord do (don't know too much of this of course living in the US and having been absent from The Netherlands for many years now). Since the big shake up at the Ajax board four years ago things have really changed and their is increased focus on the youth development program. There are lots of Feyenoord youth players scattered all over these days (most poached by other teams). the question is whether one needs more "national" training centers or increased emphasis by the clubs. I don't know which is better.
     
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #965 PuckVanHeel, Aug 4, 2014
    I saw a few incredibly dumb comments that are worth posting:

    "
    Metgod bekeek de afgelopen twee jaar talloze wedstrijden in verschillende Europese competities. Hij ziet verschillen met de eredivisie. "In Nederland stellen we bijvoorbeeld andere eisen aan verdedigers", aldus de 54-jarige oud-doelman. "Wij zien graag een centrale verdediger die inschuift en zo voetballend in het middenveld komt. We kijken vooral naar zijn voetballende vermogen. Zo maar een bal ruimen, wordt al snel gezien als een slechte oplossing."

    "In andere landen wordt er meer naar de pure verdedigende kwaliteiten gekeken. Neem Jérôme Boateng en Mats Hummels in Duitsland. Dat zijn andere types dan Joël Veltman of Stefan de Vrij. Onze verdedigers zijn minder fysiek, denken en handelen minder vanuit het duel, hebben meer voetballend vermogen en kiezen eerder voor voetballende oplossingen."
    [...]

    Geen topvier, maar... (conclusie)
    De cijfers en de experts zitten op één lijn: de eredivisie behoort niet tot de beste vier competities van de wereld. Maar heeft Louis van Gaal daarmee ongelijk? De eredivisie is wel een bijzondere competitie waar talenten zich kunnen ontwikkelen, waar goede spelers rondlopen met meer dan gemiddeld tactisch inzicht en voetballend vermogen. Met wat meer duelkracht, defensieve zekerheid en een winnaarsmentaliteit kunnen volgens de kenners ook de Europese resultaten verbeteren.
    "
    http://nos.nl/artikel/682602-eredivisie-beste-ter-wereld.html

    This is IMHO exactly the wrong road to to follow. The wrong conclusion.
     
    JC-14 repped this.
  16. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #966 Orange14, Aug 4, 2014
    So according to this we supposed wish that the Eredivisie were more like the English Premier League? I don't think so! You watch English league matches and the emphasis is always on heavy tackling at the expense of true footballing ability. Is it any wonder that the England NT underperforms in international competitions?
     
    TFC Ajax repped this.
  17. Antario2

    Antario2 Member

    Jan 29, 2012
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    #967 Antario2, Aug 4, 2014
    It depends a bit on the context. Metgod and De Mos mention that our teams should adapt a bit to he realities of European football. AZ has been the one team to realize that European football is about results first of all. Nothing wrong with playing a bit more conservatively outside of the Eredivisie.
     
  18. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #968 Orange14, Aug 6, 2014
    From ESPN FC, here is a real recipe for disaster (speaking of Italian football)> "A study by the CIES Football Observatory showed that only 8.4 percent of players in Serie A first teams are formed by their clubs. It's the lowest percentage in Europe. Faith is not placed in young players. Serie A's 20 clubs spent 55 million euros on their academies last year. That's an average of 2.75 million euros each. The Bundesliga's 18, by contrast, invested 79.3 million euros -- or 4.4 million apiece. Is it any wonder why players aged 30 or over amount to 30 percent of Italy's top flight, and only 15 percent of Germany's? Resources in Serie A instead go on foreign players. At 53.8 percent, they represent the majority. They also play 54.1 percent of the minutes."
     
  19. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    #969 Blondo, Aug 11, 2014
  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #970 PuckVanHeel, Aug 11, 2014
  21. Antario2

    Antario2 Member

    Jan 29, 2012
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    #971 Antario2, Aug 11, 2014
    The author didn't do his research very well. Ajax and Feyenoord shouldn't be on that list. The goal of both teams is to develop youngsters for their first team. Selling players is a necessity so these clubs can fund their academies and cover any short falls in revenue. Neither team runs the risk of being in violation of FFP by overspending.

    Teams like Chelsea and City who lack the revenue needed to legitimize their spending in regard to FFP do not develop players at all. Those teams are just wholesalers of young players so they can launder their sugar daddy income and artificially inflate their revenue.
     
  22. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #972 Orange14, Aug 11, 2014
    ^^other than Tim Krul has any young Dutch player made the first team of an EPL team having transfered over as a youth player?
     
  23. Antario2

    Antario2 Member

    Jan 29, 2012
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    #973 Antario2, Aug 11, 2014
    Not a single one.
     
  24. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #974 Orange14, Aug 11, 2014
    and of course Ouasim Buoy is having a stellar career over at Juventus! NOT!
     
  25. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #975 PuckVanHeel, Aug 12, 2014
    http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1433/PSV/art.../08/12/Depay-moet-kiezen-PSV-of-topclub.dhtml
     
Page 39 of 68

Share This Page