Alert: Next decades Netherlands will be the new Hungary of Europe. Once great, but slipped into mediocrity.

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Sep 3, 2012.

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Will the Netherlands be the new Hungary of Europe? Once great, but slipped into mediocrity?

  1. That's an understatement. It is going to be far worse.

    10.9%
  2. I agree, we will slip into severe mediocrity. Hungary sounds about right.

    5.5%
  3. No, not really, we will be the new Belgium, that so now and then will produce a Hazard through luck.

    20.9%
  4. No, football is a cyclical thing, in a few years we will be as strong as always.

    46.4%
  5. What a ridiculous Poll. Netherlands will even improve over time and finally win the WC.

    16.4%
  1. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    He's an adequate keeper but if you click on the ratings of keepers, he is #3. Do you think he is better than Courtois, Lloris, or Bravo? I don't.
     
  2. If you judge Marcello as having no clue, what on earth is your opinion on David Luiz then.....I understand he has been bought by PSG.....lmao
     
  3. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I rank David Luiz right up there with Sergio Ramos of Spain, physically gifted and always a threat to draw a Red Card in every match he plays.;)
     
  4. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    SF North Bay
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    I don't recall many memorable saves, other than the Costa Rica one near the end of extra time. Certainly his PK technique was abysmal. He should have stopped at least one, probably two Argentine kicks. His ball distribution appeared to be decent.
     
  5. MrOranjeBal

    MrOranjeBal Member

    Apr 7, 2009
    Club:
    AZ
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Euh against Spain to prevent the 2-0... Messi's free kick... I'm sure there were some more.
     
  6. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The fact Cillessen didnt have much to do attests to the effectiveness of our defense. And I wanna especially single out DeVrij, Vlaar and Blind
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Posted this in another thread. The cost of playing football (which is maybe even too low and doesn't take some expenses into account).
    [​IMG]

    Countries with big cashcow leagues can subsidize it and do subsidize this, in direct or indirect ways (subsidizing coaching licenses). This might be another problem.

    Despite reaching 3rd place, I still hope the FA will do their announced review properly. And not think everything is OK.
    http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...into-mediocrity.1974205/page-35#post-30598429
     
  8. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I think that it is possible that the appointment of Blind as head coach in 2 years is some kind of way for KNVB to install the van Gaal AZ team tactics of 2008-2009 into the Dutch NT. Just a balloon from me, but maybe we are going for reactive football with provocative pressing, creating our own space, making goals especially from turnovers. Maybe Blind must build on this model with Hiddink filling in some details from game to game.

    Blind's appointment must have to do with continuity.

    His body language and weird behavior at the sideline during the Brazil match make me very worried. I think he is a mental midget. Van Gaal's self confidence rubbed off on his team. The same will happen with Blind in opposite way.
     
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    It would be bad to install that as the blueprint... To use it as pragmatic solution is OK but if you're going to use it as blueprint you start to create the wrong type of players. Or players that lose something of their natural disposition and become a more functional player... Not sure whether this is a route that should be followed in a systemic way. Setting the bar high is a better way, I feel.
     
  10. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Lady's and gentlemen, our NT coach starting in 2016:

    [​IMG]



    What is this?


    1. Neuroses?
    2. Baseball signs adapted for football?
    3. Itch at his had followed up by disposing crumbs from his pants?
    4. Some kind of superstition?
     
    Tom Collingsworth repped this.
  11. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    On that note, I wonder what Kluivert has been doing these 2 seasons. I always sensed he was some kind of fifth wheel next to van Gaal.
     
  12. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Ruud has been very interesting on the ESPN feeds that we are getting in the US. He seems to be very excited to be part of the coaching staff for the NT.

    Regarding your earlier post about the tactics that will be used going forward, I think it's really too early to say. A lot will depend on the type of players who are on the NT. Certainly the Feyenoord and Ajax youth systems are developing lots of young players though we ultimately do not know whether and how many of them will be NT players. I was pleased with our defensive play in this WC and that clearly provides one part of the platform for the future. Strootman and van Ginkel both offer interesting possibilities and there are some good wing players. Big issue will be the #9.

    I'm optimistic and can't wait to see the next group of young players!

    Finally as a cautionary note, I saw today that AZ decided not to offer former US young hope Freddy Adu a contract. It's weird from my perspective since he's been around forever it seems. My home club signed him when he was 14 years old and moved him into the first team at a young age. He had some good games with the US U-21 team but really never did much of anything for club or country. We transferred him after 3 or so seasons when it was obvious that his skills which were great in the youth leagues masked the deficiency of speed and quickness that were exposed as he grew older. He's only 25 years old but I cannot see him playing anywhere.
     
  13. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    [​IMG]

    If we continue with this system. What about this?
     
  14. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Oh yeah, I have decided to go with Krul. I want to invest in a keeper that can stop penalty's as we will run into those again in 2016, 2018, 2020 and we must have a keeper that can deal with them.

    It is pointless to invest time in keepers that can not stop a penalty.
     
  15. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  16. thatkid

    thatkid Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    Netherlands
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    No.. Or CB will be pretty good at 2016 and once we start producing AM's with some quality (and they don't all flop in Europe) we are done with this system and go back to our default system.

    Better, but I'm still missing a pure AM. And why did you mess up the defense? :p Willems I think is too stupid to ever become a decent player.. Even for PSV, I predict he will be done next season.
     
  17. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    We can discuss this actually better in a new Thread for Euro 2016. Made one here.
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    This piece pretty much shows how 'disliked' (or not liked) the Netherlands is:
    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...oyalty-changed-during-the-world-cup.html?_r=0

    All other countries got massively more support.

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/28247716
    Association with the Netherlands is here: "rampaging"


    Might this also influence the coverage by the global media? Look at the muted reaction against Argentina when they said they would play physical. Or the Schumacher copycat move by Neuer. In both cases I feel the worldwide media would react vastly different in case of a Dutch player. Or how Robben was continously put down as a diver and cheat. I think it'd be naive to think this (=fan support) doesn't impact coverage.
     
  19. Abhirup

    Abhirup Member

    Nov 26, 2013
    Kolkata
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    #919 Abhirup, Jul 14, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
    This is one topic that scares the hell out of me. I'm not exactly in a position to judge since I do not live in the Netherlands but I'm sure you guys know a lot more than I do.
    All I can say is this, Holland needs to go back to producing the kind of flair players it was famous for in the past.
    Who's going to be the next Robben?? Or the next Bergkamp? The next Gullit or Cruyff?? I'm talking about players who can make things happen on their own.. We need to produce such players who exude creativity and emanate artistry on the ball..those who can get past their markers and terrorize the opponents.
    Another set of questions I have for the posters here is:
    Is the KNVB taking any remedial measures to address this issue??
    Is the federation doing enough to match the likes of Germany or Spain in terms of talent production?
    Is Cruyff's velvet revolution heading towards the right direction?

    Or are we just sitting back and enjoying the inexorable rise of Belgium?? It appalls me to see that we don't have a suitable replacement for RVP yet..Luuk De Jong, Hunter, Bas Dost, Wolfswinkel are too static for my liking..The Dutch no.9 should be one of the best players in the starting line up (if not the very best). He should be able to dribble past his markers, play nice one-two's with the wingers and wreak havoc in the opposition defence. I followed Divock Origi during this WC and I was positively surprised to see how technically gifted and agile he is... Miles better than what we have to offer in the form of Castaignos, Luuk , Dost or Wolfswinkel...
    Can't we just convert Ricardo Kishna and Bergwijn (who possesses all the coveted qualities discussed above) into strikers and let them develop for the future??
    I would welcome an opportunity to discuss this in details. Cheers! :)
     
    DRB300 repped this.
  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I agree Origi looks good while that isn't even one of their greatest talents. Netherlands should be able to produce that, too.
     
  21. Antario2

    Antario2 Member

    Jan 29, 2012
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    It's not too bad in Europe. Germany is more popular, but they have played more attractive football this world cup.

    Not really strange that the Netherlands isn't that popular in the Latin world. The team played against 6 Latin countries this world cup and taken out half of Concacaf. Robben was turned in to a villain after the Mexico game.

    England is the most interesting case as they turned around completely. The English media were the most critical after the 2010 world cup in a jingoistic attempt to paper over Webb's hack job. This time, with Van Gaal at United and the Spain game, the media just kept praising the Netherlands. It also helps that the general public has grown tired of tiki taka. It just shows how opportunistic the media are.

    'Rampaging' in a sports context isn't negative I think.
     
  22. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Spain disagrees ;)
     
    Antario2 repped this.
  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Against France and Algeria.

    Did you see the Guardian articles? Moaning about Robben his diving and Krul his antics. They wrote articles entirely dedicated to those subjects. No similar articles about other players their diving, goalkeeper barraging etc.
    David Winner and co also made the point in interviews that they are villianized now.
    BBC (Danny Murphy) literally claimed Holland "cheated" themselves to the next rounds. They called Holland cheaters. In in their sum up of the World Cup, the only thing they mention of Robben is his diving (compare this with what they say about Neymar, James or Messi):
    http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/28224110

    That sums it up for me, in all honesty. Only Robben his diving is mentioned.
     
  24. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    ^^yes the Guardian has been really bad. New York Times has been pretty fair but the Washington Post continues to harp on 2010.
     
  25. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Robben came in 3rd in Golden Ball votes, and Depay came in 2nd as best young player:

    [​IMG]
     

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