Next Coach

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by nbarbour, Dec 3, 2022.

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  1. Ghost

    Ghost BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Sep 5, 2001
    In large part, yes. I think it's a hard sell to ask for top dollar if you don't treat the product with that sort of respect. And the coaching hire is a big part of that.

    But more than that, why are they arguing so much with their fan base about this? It's pretty clear the fan base wants someone else. How much good can come from telling your fans that they're wrong and they should appreciate their middling coach?
     
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  2. superdave

    superdave BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The number of fans who didn’t buy tickets because they don’t like Berhalter as a coach is probably less than 5.
     
  3. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What is Dolo's experience like on the international side of things?
     
  4. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    As a coach? He was an assistant for US under Sarachan and was also an assistant for the Germany u 15 squad
     
  5. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m fairly certain the fan turnout would be basically the same if the coach were Cherundolo or Nancy.

    I also think that while there’s a very loud online Twitter contingent that hates Berhalter, twitter isn’t real life and isn’t representative of the rank and file US fan.
     
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  6. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I mean, there were 47k people at that game.

    I listened to a number of Dallas-based podcasts about the matchday.

    They said it was a lot like Cowboys games in the stands.
    Jerryworld, in the words of one podcaster, is a "luxurious" experience.
    The seats are cushy and perfect. There are a ton of amenities. The food is awsome, and people overindulge.
    The fans end up in this blissful coma just watching the giant big screen tv eating their awesome nachos.

    So 47k fans are there, and it sounds like 10k on tv. The acoustics are weird. The gameday experience is weird.

    There were as many fans in the stands for that US-Bolivia game as Euros games in a stadium like Leipzig or Frankfurt or Cologne. Those stadia only hold 47k or less.

    It just comes across completely differently on tv. Games in Jerrywold just seem soulless.

    People say "oh, that was just the effect of Berhalter-ball" or whatever. No. That's what games there always seem like on tv.
     
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  7. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    I don’t even think a legit top coach would affect crowd sizes.
     
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  8. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do think if we hired a Klopp or Pep there would be at least an initial bump in excitement that probably wouldn’t hold over the long term.
     
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  9. yankthisyank'swank

    Oct 13, 2010
    i beg to differ! The Mayor of Hannover is endeared by fans world-wide. When Gregg played, fans called him “beer holder”. Steve was called “Dolo” and “the mayor”. Even their nicknames connote a perceptual difference.

    dolo will bring dubs; Gregg is Gregg.
     
  10. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And yet if Cherundolo were coach you’d still see very little difference in terms of fan turnout.

    The thing that impacts fan turnout is the opponent, the stakes, and the ticket prices.
     
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  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I didn't say he did a better job. In fact, I went to say that there's nothing definitive to be taken, but I constantly see how Berhalter was supposedly "mediocre" in MLS, and the reality is that you have to take into account talent with performance.

    What I did say is that Cherundolo's LAFC teams were more talented than Berhalter's MLS finals team, which I do think is true.

    None of this is a knock on Cherundolo or a lock argument for one over the other. But since people seem to think Cherundolo winning an MLS title on pens while Berhalter lost one on a goalkeeper howler means something, we should at least acknowledge that Cherundolo's roster is freaking stacked. They had Gareth Bale coming off the bench.

    Cherundolo has done well with a stacked roster. Berhalter did well with a less stacked roster. Berhalter made the playoffs 4 out of 5 years with payrolls under league average and in two of those years, IIRC, he was bottom quartile. Whereas LAFC is one of the best funded and most talented teams in the whole region, consistently.

    Does that mean Berhalter is better than Cherundolo? Yes. But just because Cherundolo's team got a bit luckier in a title game than Berhalter's is hardly a reason otherwise.

    Berhalter was a very good MLS coach whose teams outperformed payroll consistently and who scored a couple of MLS playoff upsets in large part because of strong team and tactical play over five years.

    Talent matters. That's all. A lot of soccer fans ignore this because the economics of European soccer are so crap that all the best players are on all the best teams with all the best coaches, but it's simply a lot easier to win with better players.

    Cherundolo still has questions for me. It's a great start, but we have a LONG list of coaches in MLS with early success who fade pretty quickly. Proving you can keep it up is a big thing.
     
  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Lol. Steve Cherundolo is not drawing fans. Even when he played, no one was like "Let's get tickets, Cherundolo is in town."
     
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  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    A lot of good. Because the fanbase is fickle, entitled and doesn't know shit about the sport?

    If you allowed a fanbase to hire and fire coaches, you'd be changing coaches constantly and your team would be terrible.

    We constantly hear about how limited time the team gets together, how little time there is to learn and train. But yes, let's just keep shuttling in new coaches who need to learn players and players that need to learn them.

    And no, don't pretend this is just Berhalter. There were literally a large percentage of fans on here who wanted him fired the day he was hired. Our fans don't know shit, and so all they want are big names, whether club or coaching. That's it.

    I think you nailed it, whether intentionally or not, when you mentioned players being mentioned with Inter Milan or PSG ... there are absolutely a big section of fans who think it's ridiculous Tessman isn't in this camp because Inter Milan might be looking at him ... and that's why fans should have no say. If you need a club to tell you the relative merits of Tanner Tessman to say, Johnny, I don't really know that we should be listening to you.
     
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  14. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Indeed a large number of the Michigan fan base wanted to Jim Harbaugh fired right before he went on a three year run that was one of the best in the history of Michigan Football that culminated in a national championship.

    And Berhalter isn’t Harbaugh (who is the one of the best coaches in his sport), but fans are notoriously fickle when it comes to coaches and tend to overreact in a negative way to certain results.
     
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  15. porkrind

    porkrind Member+

    Quakes
    United States
    Sep 27, 2001
    Bostonia
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Luchi Gonzalez is available.. :D
     
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  16. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is pretty much how I see it. I think GB has taken a bit too much flack during his tenure... Under his leadership we have:

    1) multiple NL titles
    2) dominated Mexico
    3) got out of the group stage in the WC

    But he has also shown an inability to be flexible at times and the team is missing a signature win against a top 10 team. IMO, this team needs to advance from the group and get a win against Colombia/Brazil n order of me to put my faith in him for the next WC. I am concerned GB has taken us about as far as he can.
     
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  17. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wouldn’t mind finding him a YNT job when one of the current YNT coaches invariably moves on to a different job.
     
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  18. yankthisyank'swank

    Oct 13, 2010
    I agree. But I’d also argue that winning helps fill seats.
     
  19. yankthisyank'swank

    Oct 13, 2010
    Win more and they will come. Steve is a winner.
     
  20. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Then you should be a HUGE fan of Berhalter. He's won more trophies in his tenure than any coach not named Arena and he's tied with him.
     
  21. yankthisyank'swank

    Oct 13, 2010
    You’re confusing. I like you more each day though.

    1. honestly, I don’t know where you’re getting the numbers to support the roster payroll stuff. Either way, some players are paid way more than they’re worth. Some are vastly underpaid—especially in MLS.

    2. I think players are paid a bit more in 2022-2023 than they were in 2014-2015. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison there.

    3. in your first paragraph, you say “I didn’t say he did a better job”, and then in a later paragraph, you say “Does that mean Berhalter is better than Cherundolo? Yes…” I take that to mean you think Gregg did a better job. Or maybe you disagree with yourself? I know people can change their minds.

    4. Gareth Bale appeared made 12 appearances and scored 2 goals in his 2022-2023 season. Great player, but I’m not sure he was doing much more than collecting one final paycheck. Afful, Kai Kamara, and Higuain for (CC in 2015) would have been much more impactful for lafc in that mls cup. Just my opinion. all three of those were underpaid (maybe that’s kudos to Gregg?)

    I get the points you’re making, and they’re somewhat reasonable, but they’re just opinions.

    Steve is a proven winner. Gregg has done well with the national team, but he didn’t do much to earn that spot (and that’s my opinion).

    5. I agree: you can’t win without the players. I also think you have to work with what you have. Steve has done better with what he had. Looking at mls, Gregg barely had a 38% winning percentage. Steve has done better. You’d say it’s because Steve had better players. You’d also likely bring up the LVegas LIGHTS. I’m not sure they’ve ever had a winning season.
     
  22. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m not sure the focus on Cherundolo in particular. He’d be one of the candidates if Berhalter were let go but no guarantee he’d be any better of a coach.

    He was a better player than Berhalter was but that doesn’t automatically mean he’s going to be a better coach.
     
  23. yankthisyank'swank

    Oct 13, 2010
    bruh, I said he’s a 7 out of 10.
     
  24. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    I’ve literally never heard “the mayor” and I’m way more aware of “Dolo” than the average US fan. If you aren’t going to see the US play because of Berhalter - are you really a fan of the team?

    If you are going to see them because of the Mayor - or any other coach - perhaps staying at home playing Football Manager with the username Stevie C would be more satisfying.

    Are you his cousin or something? :). I’m not related, but a Nancy hire is the only realistic option I personally would get really excited about.
     
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  25. yankthisyank'swank

    Oct 13, 2010
    holy cow! I never said anything about not watching or supporting the usmnt. Of course I’d support it despite whoever is coaching (or playing). Why are you attributing me with such nonsense?

    nancy schmancy. He’s meh, but probably would be good right now. The threat of not playing due to performance is the greatest power a coach has. I think any solid coach (e.g. Nancy) coming in right now would force players out of complacency.

    the “mayor” is a thing. I think he has a thread in this forum titled as such.
     

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